Warmachine/Hordes starting Army Advice

[Leudast1215]

I'm looking into really starting Warmachine/Hordes and I would appreciate some advice on which army would be right for me based off the questions below: (you don't have to answer them directly, but any input would be appreciated).

1. Which army is considered very agile, fast, maneoverable, etc...?
2. Which army is considered very slow, tough, resilient, forgiving, etc...?
3. Which army has the better quality sculpts (key word is quality sculpts; asthetics are subjective.)
4. Which army is probably the best suited for someone familiar with miniature gaming? (I.E., not beginner)
5. Which army is infantry based? Giant robot of doom based? Hybrid?
6. Which one would be the most able to enter the up coming league with a budget of around $200?

These would apply to the armies in Hordes and Warmachine, but I'll say out right that I have no interest in Skorne and I probably won't expand beyond my Cryx Battlebox so they're sort of out. The Armies that have caught my eye thus far (literally, models are important to me) are Circle of Orboros, Khador and Cygnar (the latter as long as I don't have to use long gunners, they're not my cup of tea; I LOVE their cavalry). Khador has some of the best looking models I feel, and Circle of Orboros has an unbeatable woodsman feel combined with good sculpts which I like.

It's either this or buying 3 Black Reach box sets from Games Workshop; needless to say this option is infinitely a better value in terms of what you get model wise for the money spent than Privateer Press.

[Pop goes the world]

1. Which army is considered very agile, fast, maneoverable, etc...?
-Cryx, Everblight

2. Which army is considered very slow, tough, resilient, forgiving, etc...?
-Khador (forgiving?)

3. Which army has the better quality sculpts (key word is quality sculpts; asthetics are subjective.)
-You said it- subjective.

4. Which army is probably the best suited for someone familiar with miniature gaming? (I.E., not beginner)
-You ask very strange questions.

5. Which army is infantry based? Giant robot of doom based? Hybrid?
Infantry- Anybody, really, but usually Menoth and Skorne
Jacks- Cygnar, Khador

6. Which one would be the most able to enter the up coming league with a budget of around $200?
-Any

[Leudast1215]

thanks a lot, but lol at the answer to #4.

[Pop goes the world]

once you decide on an army, post what you plan on buying and we can tell you if any of it is not worth buying. Every Warmachine faction has certain jacks/units that are pretty worthless, and I know I made the mistake of buying certain things I never used.

You are pretty safe no matter what you buy for Hordes though.

The smart thing to do for your money would be to pick a warcaster/warlock you like, and build an army around it. You will get the most for your money that way.

Delso is playing Orboros right now, so he could give you advice if you decide to go with them.

If you go with Khador, you can make some pretty sick infantry armies with winterguard or ironfang pikemen.

If you go Cygnar, their new caster Kraye is a crazy good jack caster, and he makes your whole jack army really fast and manuverable.

[ddaypunk06]

Yea I'm a go to guy for Orboros, Pirates, and Mercs.

However, Adam and Rios are still much better at the game than I.

Orboros really depends on your caster.

[Leudast1215]

As far as Circle is concerned, I really like the models for the Tharn Ravagers, the lady Tharns with sharp pointy sticks and the Tharn warlock who transforms into a beast. is it possible to build an army around those and say a unit of those wicked looking double crossbow guys and the wolves of orboros? I know statistically Gatormen are better than Tharn Ravagers, but I can't bring myself to pay for alligator men .. I also like the wolf warbeasts, the walking stones are so-so, the Shifting Stones however seem kinda neat. I guess if i did Circle i'd be going for more of a woodsman/guerilla warfare style theme. I think the one warlock who can cast forests outa nowhere is cool in theory, but the model isn't doing it for me like that one awesome guy mentioned earlier.

Cygnar I think might be cool to do either a WWI themed army in the form of Trenchers and all their appropiate UA's backed up by Rangers and a few Jacks to bring on the big guns. OR do a mostly Jack force backed up by cavalry for the cool factor. is either viable? Victoria Haley would seem appropiate more or less for the WWI theme and not sure for the jack force.

Khador... I'm really not too keen on a WinterGuard force because the models don't do it for me. Is an all jack army viable with Kruschev the Terrible as the Warcaster? it sounds very cool with a low model count to boot. A unit of Widowmakers is obligatory because of the cool factor.

[Pop goes the world]

As for orboros, you could definitely do a cool Tharn force with either Kromac or Morghana. Keep in mind you MUST include some beast in every Hordes army to upkeep your Fury. I'm not really up on the rules for Orboros, but they have the best anti-infantry caster in Krueger, and there are sick combos available. Shifting stones are an auto-include in most armies, and though the Tharn Ravagers might not be as good as the gatormen at first glance, they take advantage of 'circle only' spells, and are really manuverable. Plus they have descent UAs now, and their cavalry has a SICK combo with Morvana.

The Circle Trencher Army, while cool looking, will suck hard. Trenchers are expensive, and are only really worth fielding at 750+ point games. And they are very, very easy to kill. Cygnar has other sweet infantry, including all their electric guys and their new Morrowan knights.

Karchev is okay, but once again, he looks better on paper than he is. Small army size isn't always a good thing, especially when your army is as slow as Khador's. Karchev has some cool tricks, but when I played with him he always seemed to be lacking. He is good, but there are better casters out there, especially for Khador. Widowmakers are always a good choice, though.

[Leudast1215]

while i dig some of the Khador models, i'm getting hte impression from books and here that they're going to be a bit too slow for my preferences as i like to make things go where i want em' if i can't shoot it to death.

sad to hear about the cygnar trencher force cause a lot of their other infantry models don't strike my fancy.

Seems like i'm going to lean back towards Circle of Orboros again (my first pick oddly months back) due to the models and potential play style. gives me something to paint other than red, black and brown too... Green and brown!!!

[Leudast1215]

Here's what i was thinking for Cygnar: This is the stuff I want, but i do not know most of the point values.

Warcaster(s): Caine, Haley, Jerimiah Kraye (don't know what he does, but i want the model) and Stryker. I'll also be using the epic models for these casters, not neccesarily the rules, because the models are better.

Solo(s): Finn, Journeyman Warcaster, Gun Mage Captain Adept, a couple Stormsmiths and Katherine Laddermore Mounted (i want that model).

Troops: Gun Mages (6), Trenchers (8) + UA, Rangers (6). Field Mechaniks. Anything else?

Warjacks: Hunter, Grenadier, Centurian (it looks bad ass), Thunderhead (it looks more bad ass).

any comments or advice on this list would be very helpful.

[Leudast1215]

Here's what i was thinking for Circle:

Warlocks: Baldur, Krueger.

Solos: Blackclad Wayfarer, Lord of the Feast

Troops: Tharn Blood Trackers (10), Wolves of Orboros (8) + UA, 2 x Sentry Stones, 1 x Shifting Stones, Druids of Orboros, Reeves of Orboros (8).

Warbeasts: A couple Warp Wolves, a Pureblood, a Woldwyrd, not sure what else.

Any comments or advice on this list would be helpful.

[Pop goes the world]

Warlocks: Baldur, Krueger.
-Krueger is good no matter what you do, but Baldur really only hits his stride if you are using elemental construct beasts (like the Woldwatcher, Woldwyrd, etc.). I personally think Kruger runs better with the elemental constructs too, but that is just me. If you want to run a big infantry army, look at Morghanna.

Solos: Blackclad Wayfarer, Lord of the Feast
Lord of the Feast is... not as good as he looks. I have never seen anyone pop his mini-feat, his crow never hits when you need it to, and the Totem Hunter works much better at solo control (plus the totem hunter can drop hard targets like warjacks if you need him to)

Troops: Tharn Blood Trackers (10), Wolves of Orboros (8) + UA, 2 x Sentry Stones, 1 x Shifting Stones, Druids of Orboros, Reeves of Orboros (8).

The wolves are throw away cannon fodder, but they are cheap and have reach. Shifting stones are an auto include in most lists I see. Druids are hard to use properly- you might want to think about adding them in once you know your army well. The Blood Trackers are okay, but you might want to look at the light cavalry models instead. Sentry stones seem fun, but I don't know how functional they are.
Warbeasts: A couple Warp Wolves, a Pureblood, a Woldwyrd, not sure what else. Warpwolves are always good, but the pureblood seems like he onoy hits his stride if he has a couple normal warpwolves to support. Woldwyrd is an awesome tool of denial. You might want to look at the Woldwarden, as he is tough as nails, has a good combo strike, and can cast spells. His animus works well with Kruger, and all elemental constructs work better with Baldur.

[Leudast1215]

Here's another idea i had:

Stryker or Haley

Finn, Gunmage captain adept, that merc sniper fellow, Stormsmiths, journeyman warcaster (i wish i knew what the other two Legend solos did...)

6 Trenchers + UA for Advanced Deploy, 6 Trenchers + UA for Advanced Deploy, 6 Rangers for Advanced Deploy, 6 Gun Mages, 6 Precursor Knights + UA (cause their models are cool) and 2 Mechanik crews.

2 Hunters (for Advanced Deploy) and a Grenadier.

The whole idea behind this list is to advanced deploy wherever i find favorable and annoy my opponent. the rangers are there to help a unit of Trenchers bayonet charge out of cover (i learned the necessity of this the hard way in a demo) and be a nuisance. Finn is there to boost the other trencher unit. The Hunters will AD with their respective Trenchers and provide dedicated anti-armor support. the gunmages/adept will run up and flank whatever goes for the Trenchers. Stryker will run to one group of Trenchers and the Journeyman Warcaster will run to the other. The Grenadier is there to provide support to the Gunmages/adept and Precursor Knights and the two mechanik crews will run to each Hunter unit because Hunters are squishy. the intent is to create two separate fire bases on the flank with the mages/knights creating a reserve center. the enemy has to commit himself to taking out each of these fire bases (or likely fail if taking out both) which in turn opens up the opportunity for flanking fire from the other firebase and the reserve center mages/knights to literally flank them. the sniper/smiths will do whatever the situation requires.

btw how many points is this lol?

thoughts on this idea?

[Leudast1215]

Circle of Orboros

Lord of the Feast
Woldwyrd
Tharn Ravager Shaman
Wolves of Orboros UA
Blackclad Wayfarer
Sentry Stone and Mannikins
Warpwolf
Baldur
Woldwatcher
Woldwarden
Wolves of Orboros 8
Tharn Blood Trackers 6
Tharn Ravagers 4
Shifting Stones

751

Seem like a relatively competent list? I'm no power gamer so having the LotF in there is for fluff and the model (very important). The overall theme of this list would be a woodland recon force thus all the stone stuff and baldur naturally. I just really like the idea of making forests appear on the table at my whim ^_^. It's built with that theme in mind and I chose the coolest models available. Were it up to my wallet I would've thrown in some Reeves and that cool whitebeard fellow (i have no idea what he does).

[Pop goes the world]

This list looks pretty good. Keep in mind, you MUST stay at 750 points or under, so you might have to drop a troop or shuffle some stuff around.

LotF is alright, but like I said, for the points the Totem Hunter is a lot more versatile.

[Pop goes the world]

Aug 29, 2008 11:50:16 GMT -6 Leudast1215 said:

Here's another idea i had:

Stryker or Haley

Finn, Gunmage captain adept, that merc sniper fellow, Stormsmiths, journeyman warcaster (i wish i knew what the other two Legend solos did...)

6 Trenchers + UA for Advanced Deploy, 6 Trenchers + UA for Advanced Deploy, 6 Rangers for Advanced Deploy, 6 Gun Mages, 6 Precursor Knights + UA (cause their models are cool) and 2 Mechanik crews.

2 Hunters (for Advanced Deploy) and a Grenadier.

btw how many points is this lol?

thoughts on this idea?

If you fielded this force with all units at the minimum it would be at least 847 points, so you would have to drop some stuff.

Keep in mind you can usually only have one instance of a UA per warcaster (with few exceptions), and the Trencher UA can only be taken by one unit.

I find that you are often better off if you can field your units at maximum strength, and shave troops off if you need the points.

This force, as it stands, will have some pretty difficult challenges ahead for it. Yes, you have plenty of advanced deploy, but having the vast majority of your army advanced is not always a good thing (if you play against Cryx or Everblight, you will be lucky to have any of your advancers left on turn 2). Your advanced deployed troops will usually annoy your enemy, but that is it. Plus, you don't have many 'heavy hitters.' Yes, the hunters can take down big targets, but they are one trick ponies which get crushed really easily (and miss more often that you would like, boosted or not). Your list is trying to do too many things at once, and probably won't do any of them well.

My advised list is this (trying to keep some of the units you like, while maintaining the play style you are going for)

Haley or Stryker (Both are awesome)
Lancer (For his arc node, and shield)
Hunter (For taking out hard targets)
Ironclad (Big hard ass who knocks things down and can take some punishment)
Finn (Boosts trenchers, shoots stuff, kills small infantry)
Journeyman Warcaster (Have him run the hunter and otherwise hide)
Stormsmiths (3) (for enemy solo killing, and picking off infantry)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (incredible for killing solos, crippling jacks, and being an otherwise giant pain in anyone's ass)
Longunners (10) (can kill anything, and can do it from far away)
Longunner UA
Trenchers (8) (you know what they do)
Trencher UA

Dependent upon the caster, 743 or 749

Same basic premise for play-
Long gunners (especially under the influence of Snipe) provide your main fire base- they can and will kill anything. Keep them back, keep them safe (the Ironclad will come in handy for this). Stormsmiths run around zapping solos and unit commanders, or disrupting warjacks. The hunter hides in some woods, pops off a few shots at big targets, then retreats back with the other troops. Aiyana and Holt do their thing, taking out infantry and/or solos, or harassing bigger targets (while staring invisible). Trenchers and Finn are your frontline support, basically slowing your enemy's advance while your long gunners and hunter pop the hard-to-kill stuff. The trenchers are going to die, but they should drop a few things in the process, and can provide a smoke screen to disrupt most enemy charges and shooting (except everblight).

[Leudast1215]

Totem Hunter
Woldwyrd 8
Farrow Brigands 6
Wolves of Orboros UA
Blackclad Wayfarer
Sentry Stone and Mannikins
Warpwolf
Baldur
Woldwatcher
Woldwarden
Wolves of Orboros 8
Tharn Blood Trackers 6
Farrow Bone Grinders 4
Shifting Stones
CoO paintbox...

750 points = 261$ (from online discount)

I really appreciate the advice, especially on the Cygnar list. now that i've tweaked the Circle one, I just have to choose between them

btw can anyone tell me what Orrick, Dahlia Hallyr & Skarath Warbeast, Rorsh & Brine Character Heavy Warbeast and Viktor Pendrake do? their models just appeared on the gallery page and are qutie spiffy.

In fact, come to think of it, is it possible to build a minion army in a similar fashion as one would build a warmachine mercenary army? that would seem to be the intent of the two minor warlock models being released. because if this were to be case and minions were supplemented with the next book next spring... bring forth the swine army of doom! muwahaha

[Pop goes the world]

No rules released yet on the Minion casters. Their book still doesn't come out for another year.

Pendrake is a minion solo who will work for Circle, and he looks like he kicks ass. He can boost your own troops, and hinder enemy warbeasts.

List is looking good. Warpwolf is just kinda hangin' out in there with all the golems, but he will still kick some ass. I friggin love the Woldwardens personally, both the model and the rules. One of the toughest, most versatile beasts in the game, with their kick ass free spell casting, chain attack, and super high armor (for a warbeast...)

[Leudast1215]

I agree that the Warpwolf sticks out like a sore thumb, but he's a giant werewolf with a pretty good sculpt and he kicks butt by himself. I think of him as the physical incarnation of my "undo undo!" button when things go badly somewhere. Also there really isn't two of anything in this list, so he adds variety. sad to hear though about the minion warcasters. damn PP, such a tease. any word on the Orrick fellow?

[tkaz84]

I'm just fleshing out my Cygnar army myself. If anyone hasn't already told you this, start with the Battlebox. Regardless of which faction(s) you choose, they are very cost-efficient ways to start an army. If you want more help on choosing a faction, I recommend this site. Whatever side you choose, do not overlook mercenaries/minions. Some of their solos can really provide a boost to your army.

[Pop goes the world]

Except for the Cryx battle box. You will never use the Slayer or Defiler ever again.