Brainstorming for Genestealer Cult

[Leudast1215]

That just got me thinking; since the whole idea is that Tyranids negate the warp, how about if choosing more of a daemonic cult the patriarch is unavailable (he's quite killy, bit of a loss there). Genestealers now become a 0-1 choice and Gargoyles, Spore Mines and Lictors cannot be taken. The Genestealers remain because it's still a Genestealer cult and some 1st generation bugs have to be around for the cult even to exist. However, the absence of the other three choices show that the Tyranid Hive Fleets aren't coming so the Cult turns to Chaos for help in the absence of said Hive Fleets and Patriarch to properly guide them.

Thanks a lot I'm going to run with this. I don't have any Daemons so it's completely academic even for BETA testing though . Khorne might be a good idea, he's the only Warp God I can see coming to "help" out a Genestealer Cult. So therefore any Daemon options would have to be soley Khorne based from the Greater Daemon to the other choices.

So within this codex/rule set could be guide lines for creating a few variations of a genuine Genestealer Cult that's fighting for their freedom to choose to become food to the Tyranids, and the other could be the opposite where the cult has lost its way from say their Patriarch dying before his/her time and turns to Chaos. Khorne hears their cries and comes in to join in on the fun. All Khorne Daemons, deploying as described in a previous post, would deny the stubborn rule for all Priests, hit friendly squads in melee for any misses in melee combat (hyper predator) and force a leadership check on any cult unit within 6" of a Daemon unit to show that the cult isn't too happy about the Daemons raining in on their parade so to speak (after all, it's the Magus who became corupted, not his cult). I think that's both a fluffy and more than generous series of penalties for using Daemons in a Cult because I don't approve of the "mixing" encouraged in the Daemon codex and it shouldn't be used here either, so it's ruled only Khorne can be used. Otherwise everyone would probably use Tzeentch and his flamers hehe.

[Andrew]

Why did I not hear about said bikes in my learnings? Probably because they ended up being not feasible and thus didn't work. Seriously, if the Germans couldn't get that right, some po-dunk mutants with little military knowledge sure as hell aren't going to know. +12 points, +1 W, sidecar, heavy stubber.

[Leudast1215]

Dude, the space marine biker with a heavy bolter is straight out of the German motorized divisions of WWII from the side car and everything. Do a google image search or something I've been researching WWII since I was 12 years old . But back to the issue, you seem rather intent on the issue of bikes even though I don't own any. But for the sake of other potential users... no sane person is going to spend 12 points for a heavy stubber on a BS3 T3(4) 5+ save bike model for a total cost of 24 points when I can get an initiate or hybrid a heavy stubber for about 5 points and have him hide in cover. for perspective, a space marine could have a heavy bolter and be T4(5) with a 3+ save and BS4. It's retarded point costing for a heavy stubber on a cult biker model to cost nearly as much as a heavy bolter on a far superior model. I'll refrain from typing the actual cost of a heavy bolter for a space marine biker cause it isn't fictional like my list ^_^, but i'm sure it's 3 points more than a pintle mounted heavy stubber found in the IG codex.

gallery.kitmaker.net/data/22418/001150.JPG

[Andrew]

Hey, guess what that includes: a sidecar! Wow! Exactly what I (and not you) have been talking about the entire time!

The bikes are a stickler. They simply must be feasible for the user, which is a poor, pathetic, unaugmented, relatively untrained human/genestealer hybrid. I'd be fine with it just being +10 pts. Marine attack bikes are 40p anyway, so 24 or 22 is rather nice (and not nearly twice the cost of the marine model...). You can also have the bikes get cover saves too, with a better toughness than that dude in cover. Not to mention two wounds on the model with the weapon, vs one in the squad. You can't compare units or models like you are because it simply doesn't work. A guy in a squad has a totally different set of abilities and tactical purposes than a guy on a bike. I'd see them more as outflanking and planting krak grenades on tanks, like guerrillas etc. I'm just trying to get the point to you that if you're going to make your own codex, it should be balanced and logical, not "gimmee that, some of that, some of those, and voila! Oh right, and improve upon crappy units while I'm at it."

About including daemons...while the "betrayer" rule is a nice touch, really goes away from it being a GENESTEALER cult. It's all about the genestealers taking over humans, and never about daemonic entry. That's what the Lost and the Damned army is. If you were to restrict genestealer units in the effort to include them, well you might as well play the latter, eh?

Honestly, I more or less liked it with the original changes you had. Just leave it at that, and it will be fine.

[Leudast1215]

Yeah the Daemon changes were more of a nerd-gasm that I ran with. That's why I brainstorm here to weed out the good and bad ideas. Which you've actually been quite helpful with thanks a lot cause no one else sure is offering feed back... Come to think of it I've never even read the original LATD codex. Oh well, if someone has Daemon models, unlike me, there's some material to work with. I was rather fond of the "betrayer" concept ^_^.

+10 for the car/heavy stubber is reasonable bringing the Cult Biker to around 22 points for the car and stuff. I'll probably just realistically stick to the tweaks I've made thus far and tweak them further otherwise I could really run with all the ideas I have and get off track again. Heck maybe I'll come up with a "guerilla" codex or something later on... muwahahaha.

Btw I just like to make some units worthwhile taking within a list because I'm not like GW I'm not writing the stats of units in order to sell models, I'm writing them for fun while still making sense within the list and the theme/fluff of the army list. So if it seems like I'm trying to make crappy units better, well, I am. Why even have a unit in an army list if you'll never even consider using it? *cough* Tau Vespid and Sniper Drones *cough*. I'd hope it's apparent I'm not going for power-gamey, I mean just look at the options in this list and my tweaks. They're rather... under-whelming. I'd r*pe this army with my Tau, or to add salt in the wound I'd deploy my 'Nids ^_^.

From BETA testing last week I've actually concluding that Initiates are surprisingly over-powered. They're 3 points each and come with 2 CCW no armor save. I'll put them back to having only having 1 attack base and a las-pistol. Ironically this will probably increase their lethality because they never killed anything in melee vs. Eldar (not surprising), but were a little too effective against GEQ's for my liking in melee.