Brainstorming for Genestealer Cult

[Leudast1215]

So I've been brainstorming aloud as of late about making a Genestealer cult. The plan as of now is to build it off using the codex found at belloflostsouls website as the primary guideline/core, but I want to add little special rules, options and units that'll make the army more fun to convert and play with/against.

The idea here is to make it kinda a light infantry horde version of guard, but instead of platoons squads can reach a size of 20 models for basic troop choices (already in the unofficial codex).

If anyone has any spare parts whether it be tyranid, imperial guard, space marine, etc... i'd be very interested in taking a look sometime?

Also, to be specific about a particular idea, is it ok to include a unit combining something like artillery and a tank chasis? I take inspiration and the model literally from WWII in the form of a Marder III self-propelled gun. Given the size of this model (smaller than a traditional 40k tank) I figure i could convert it up a bit, throw a couple guys in the back of the vehicle and count it something like:

open-topped, cannot move on a roll of 1, if rolling 2 1's in a game the vehicle is immobilized, rolling 3 1's makes it explode D6 inches, armor 10/10/9, with a Strength 7 AP4 Hvy1 BS3 gun for say 40 points roughly? (basically a tracked version of a Sentinel, but without the bonus of being an autocanon or technically a "tank" or "walker").

It's neat little units like these that I'm brainstorming because frankly I cannot afford to spend $30 each for a half dozen Ork Trukks and using some WWII models (the actual tank versions of which are about 40k size) I can proxy them for different units in the list. None of them are going to be very good/competitive stat wise, just a way to add a cool look for a cheap price with different stats than the status quo and the rules would match WYSIWYG on the tank models themselves.

I also don't want the army to have lots of massive guns, but rather lots of cheap strength 3/4 weapons, some strength 7 from vehicles (heavy weapon squads don't make sense for this army) and looted imperial guard vehicles if i ever get around to buying any when the IG get a new codex, but if that ever happens they'll have 0-1 restrictions.

how do you guys feel about playing against this unofficial kind of army/codex for friendly games? I want to make something unique that'll stand out (with $ in mind, thus combining IG models and 'nid bits and WWII models) amidst the increase in space marine armies i'm seeing; which are just bland to me.

so i'm thinking putting the looted/converting idea back into the game which was lost in the new ork codex, kinda mix of horde/odd vehicles like orks, but with a tyranid theme both in model conversion and unit abilities: rending sergeants, pseudo-synapse HQ's (maybe a broodlord... but i'd have to make him a junior version or something), mutated abominations (bell of lost souls), hybrids, trucks, and of course a few genestealers proper.

obviously this is not for tournament play.

[Pop goes the world]

If you can get your hands on a 2nd Edition Tyranid Codex (the first Tyranid codex), it has the fluff/rules guidelines for a genestealer cult. They have basic IG force organization, but with different leadership and some extra units. The leadership was either a Genestealer primarch or broodlord, and the extra units were hybrids (IG with claws and such- basically like the traitor legion stuff, but stealers), and full-blood genestealers. I think they had limited access to some of the nastier stuff (Basilisks, Leman Russ, Etc), but they had psychers and stuff, so you could easily represent that.

[Leudast1215]

unfortunately i can't find that edition of the codex, and i'm looking more to create a combination of current/soon to be Imperial Guard and the current Tyranids combined with a bit of my own interpretation furthermore based off of the Bell of Lost Souls fan codex (it's a good guide line). I'd welcome help or participation by anyone who'd want to offer their $0.02, especially when/if i start posting detailed unit entries/abilities to make sure i'm not going over board. it probably help to read that fan codex too, it's a .pdf on their website.

[Andrew]

It probably would be good to read it, considering it's an updated version of the original, they claim.

[Leudast1215]

If you can find me a copy somewhere I'd be more than happy to take a look.

Here's some brainstorming I've been doing adjusting costs (since this is an unnoficial codex the cost listing for it is irrelevant; and the actual GW units costs are listed as the modified version, so there shouldn't be any copyright issues).

Supplements (theory machine) to the Bell of Lost Souls Genestealer Cult Codex:


Genestealer Squads are exactly the same as in the Tyranid Codex, but now Elite.

Units that have Infiltrate/Scout do NOT lose the ability when deployed in transports because 5th Edition made it clear that transports can outflank with the unit inside it, but not infiltrate traditionally as per the 12”/18” rules.

Brood Brothers can also choose to be equipped with Lasguns or laspistols/CCW or shotguns.

The Truck (either variant) is open-topped. Hybrid Driver is +5 points.

Sentinels are 25 points base cost (it was gay over-priced as it was).

The Devoted special rule applies to any and every unit a Primarch or Magus joins (this includes the retinue).

Cult Priest: 35 points. Same stats as Brood Brother, but leadership 9 and 2 base attacks. Equipped with a Staff of Enlightenment (two-handed, +2 Strength). Gives the unit the Stubborn special rule. Unit must always move towards the nearest enemy infantry unit (not tanks), but running is optional and must always assault the nearest enemy infantry unit if able to do so. Independent Character. 0-3 Priests may only be included only if a Magus is included in the Army and Priests function independently on the table top, but otherwise do not take up a force organization chart and are not scoring.

Tankette: Armor: 11/9/9 with BS3. Open Topped. Equipped with Cult Mortar and Heavy Stubber. If the Tankette moves, on a D6 roll of 1 it cannot move for that turn because it's a scrapped together piece of ancient tech that primitive truck engines are always in danger of melting. Costs 55 points. May be deployed in squadrons of up to 3 vehicles. All Tankettes may Upgrade the Cult Mortar for an Auto Cannon for +10 points. The Tankette is not a Civilian Vehicle. It's not a Tank. If a Tankette roles a 1 in Dawn of War, the vehicle is placed with the rear of the model touching the table edge. It's a Fast Attack Choice.

Brood Initiates may not be armed with Frag Grenades, but Brood Comrades and Brothers can.

A Acolyte with 2 sything talons is granted +1 attack. A Brood Comrade Acolyte would have 3 attacks base.

HQ Choices may choose to be deployed in/with either a Limousine or Truck.

Trucks have BS3.

Brood Comrades can have Shotguns, Lasguns or pistols and close combat weapons.

Brother Chavil allows Penitent Engines and Storm Troopers to be inducted (Sisters Repentia originally? wtf?).

Inquisitor Seygale is now 180 points (Space Marine Special Characters got nothing on her ability).

Captain Kundera is now 180 points.

I'm leaving the Chimera at its original cost because it's the only survivable transport in this army, or one that can field something other than a Heavy Stubber. Except now it has side Armor 11 FTW!.

A Patriarch cannot infiltrate therefore it cannot out-flank or infiltrate with a vehicle or retinue. It's retinue is size 1-6, and the patriarch is 2 seats in a transport.

Seeding Lictors are now 50 points each and normally deploy and roll separately. They can be given a 4+ armor save for +10 each points. However, for +25 points (for 2-3, it's a blanket cost), they may be allowed to enter play as a squad rolling 1 D6 for reserves, but may not have a 4+ armor save, relying instead on pack tactics.

A Magus allows any units falling back within 12" to regroup if under half strength and if an enemy unit is within 6". He comes with a 5+ armor save.

Bikers may be upgraded with a Heavy Stubber for +10 points.

Tell me what you think on my theory machine and feel free to offer any supplementary units/rules.

belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2008/02/play-aid-genestealer-cults-mini-dex.html

Codex that I'm using as a core/guide line is found here.

[Leudast1215]

In retrospect I should probably up the cost of the Tankette by 10 points to 55 to make a more distinct alternative to the Sentinel.

[Leudast1215]

I'm considering using the Warhammer Flagellants for Brood Initiates.

Do you guys have any suggestions as to any changes that could be made to the Bikers? They just don't seem... very well thought out. Why would I want a bike that runs around with a laspistol, even if it is for a fake army? Maybe Giving them a Heavy Stubber each on the bike?

Also came up with the idea that a cult would only go to war if it was threatened, or more likely when they drew the attention of a Tyranid Hive Fleet. Therefore I'm thinking a 0-1 Spore Mines from the Tyranid Codex could be bought and fielded on their own as specified in said codex. This and the junior Lictors would hopefully give the feel that a Hive Fleet is about to scour the planet and the Cult is in the midst of a brief, but furious rebellion cause Hive Fleets, according to fluff, bombard their planets with spores, mines, gargoyles, and Lictors. Speaking of Which, maybe a 0-1 Gargoyles could be used for the same reasoning. Both 0-1 units in question could only be deployed via deep strike, both cause they can and because it simulates the hive fleet beginning its descent.

[ddaypunk06]

I am pretty sure either me or rios...or anyone that downloads can grab you a digital copy of the 2nd ed nid codex.

[Leudast1215]

Stop telling me to read the original codex unless you have a copy of it on you that I can borrow .

I'd appreciate it far more for any feedback on my ideas or any suggestions as far as units/rules go. I'm not a terribly original guy I take that which I like and make it better (like the Japanese). In the same way I cannot formulate original strategies, I can only pick apart the flaws in my opponent's strategy. (Thus in part why I got skewered in the 3rd tourney game... his strategy was flawless). It's a pretty weird personal quirk... I can win any other battle but my own.

The only semi-original ideas I've come up with thus far is the whole addition of the least used/competitive Tyranid units deploying via deep strike to simulate a Hive Fleet invasion in progress.

The final product will be put up here for download after BETA testing at our club meetings using some proxies (go free DE minis), so feel free to offer your $0.02 cause as far as I'm concerned anyone can use it for fun and therefore it needs to be applicable in part to anyone but myself.

Also thinking as far as proxies/units go: guardsmen could be used to count as Brood Brothers, converted Guardsmen count as the Comrades/Hybrids, that one flag carrying Warcaster guy from Khador, Warmachine could be a Magus (sick model) and a Broodlord could be a Patriarch, a Carnifex or Ogre from Fantasy could be the monstrous creature thingy, and Bikers could Ork Bikers converted, and Priests could be the Choir of Menoth from Warmachine. In an ideal world I'd throw in some Pig Iron minis to flesh things out, those sculpts just put any standard infantry model GW makes to shame and cost half as much as Forge World's DKOK.

Heck as long as I'm Brainstorming maybe some Gaunts or something could Deep Strike from their version of a drop pod. Not sure how the synapse issue would be handled, but I'm really trying to pull off, in game, the effect that the planet is about to over-run and the army fighting the Genestealer Cult is doomed win or lose. Obviously the player would have to pay for these units.

[Andrew]

To be honest, why not just use the one from BOLS? It's perfectly acceptable to me, and your truck is in there. However, you could add in the option for an autocannon on said truck to get some heavier guns. I'd drop the lictor though; not fluffy. And don't add any Tyranids. Just use codex Tyranids if you want that. They are not fluffy in a cult army at all, because at that point the planet's population is being herded into bioships for assimilation, and there are no battles since the planet's been completely taken over. So I'd say absolutely no regular 'nids except for genestealers because that's their cult after all. I could also see a broodlord in that list though.

Also, don't simply add armor/drop points/etc simply because you want to make it work better for you. I'd want to make all my dreadnoughts armor 13 and bolters rending, but that's just wanting something to be better than it should ever be, points increase or no. Motorcycle equivalents absolutely should not have heavy stubbers. Can you realistically drive and fire a .50 machine gun on that? Of course not. Make it a side car, increase the point cost, and add a wound for the passenger. Japanese "improvements" have no place in codex design, except in the Tau army, because that's clearly anime. Smacks of whining and power boosting because you can't get the unit to work well.

However, I'd work with some of the points costs with the vehicles. They modified them for the hybrid drivers, and might've put it too high. Test them in at least 5 games, then we'll decide if it's okay or should go down 5-10, but definitely no lower than that.

Who are these characters: Inquisitor Seygale, Captain Kundera. They should not be part of your army at all. An inquisitor would be the one to root it out, not become part of it.

[Leudast1215]

The advantage of reading the document I linked to is that it answers most of your questions especially regarding the inquistors they're obviously for your opponent to use. Btw if you're going to tell me to use the this codex only (as fan-made as my own tweaks) then don't tell me not to use certain units in said codex. I just had my first play-test with the tweaks and the only thing that came out over-powered was a Patriarch (he has the stats of a broodlord already) and a retinue popping outa a open-topped limousine. While the Orks do this all the time, Carl and I decided it doesn't fit with the theme and I'm going to tweak it. Otherwise everything else, current tweaks included, made for a very interesting game. This fan-made codex by itself is pretty damn unplayable and static and my tweaks just frankly make it more fun. I want a 2000 points game so i can throw in the gargoyles/spore mines cause they're the least cheesiest units available in the tyranid codex short of rippers. Those junior lictors also actually suck much harder than the Tyranid versions; trust me. they did squat. diddly. As far as Heavy stubbers being power-gamey somehow on 5+ armor save T3(4) Bikers, then Space Marine Bikers are cheesy for coming with twin-linked bolters... Moot point anyway, I have no biker models suitable for proxy.

Carl and I figured that given how shitty these junior Lictors are they be made 10 points cheaper and be given upgrades to allow for coming in as an entire squad OR a 4+ armor save. the latter being about 15 points each, the former being about 25 points maybe. Not combine able.

The Limousine is staying open-topped (i have a corvette model), but the Patriarch cannot infiltrate therefore it combined with a retinue means it cannot out-flank. Stealers in Limousines still can if appropiate upgrades from Tyranid codex are bought. The Patriarch takes up 2 seats in a vehicle instead of 1.

The Magus was utterly odd/useless, so we made him allow units falling back and under half strength able to rally to make him more leader type of HQ rather than the Killy type like the Patriarch. His ability doesn't apply if enemy units are within 6".

We also concluded that, though they were not used (the only anti-tank guns I fielded were 2 Auto-canons on shockingly lucky Tankettes vs. scattering ordinance) Lascanons should not be field able.

We're working on the Hybrid Driver, which is literally Extra Armor (wtf? stupid fan-writers) and my idea is just to make it be an army advantage to make "hybrid driver" a cheaper version of "Extra armor".

Right now there is NOTHING power-gamey about this army, I only won because I got unusually lucky and at my request no Hellhound was fielded in order to prolong the game and he had no flamer units. Otherwise the game would've ended in his favor on turn 2 we both agreed.

There is no gun beyond Strength 8 in this army, and as of now, that comes from a proxied Leman Russ (in the codex btw) which managed to kill 1 guardsman hehe. none of the Troops are even as good as Guardsmen because they cannot carry plasma or melta guns, just flamers basically. and I can't really use the heavy support option for heavy weapons (too guardish first of all) cause I don't have suitable proxies. I also like having an excuse to field my CC Carnifex model as a abomination ^_^.

It's also a different army play style surprisingly; there's a really big obligation to field your HQ's to support the infantry, but in doing so you deny at least the Patriarch's obviously killyness. Priests turned out to be helpful, but that's 35 points a pop Independant character with no armor save 1 W that dies in melee. I lost two of my best infantry units because I didn't support them enough with my HQ's... which, fortunately, accurately shows that without leadership (HQ's) this army kinda folds in on itself, which I find quite fluffy for a cult.\

The kill-points on this army are approaching Guard levels though; especially with Deep Striking Spore Mines.

The shocker-MVP unit of this army in our BETA test game though has got to be the Brood Initiates; even when modded with 2 CCW's (so no gun) and no armor save, at their crappy stats, they managed through a lot of consolodation rolls of 6 to hop outa cover, beat up a squad in melee and literally jump into cover to make cover saves from angry flash lights only to repeat this strategy like 3 turns in a row. lots of luck and really funny to watch. Well, that and watching a Leman Russ scatter off of the Tankettes 3 times, then 2 times fail to penetrate both side armor 9 and front armor 11 by just 1 point with ordinance.... I think the Tankettes scored lucky and side-armor shot a Chimera, then kinda ran around looking funny because they couldn't hurt the other 3 AV14 tanks.

[Andrew]

The two characters I mentioned are not in that pdf, so I can't be told to read what doesn't exist .

You wanted a fluffy genestealer cult; I'm giving you guidelines on what fluffy is for them, based on the stacks of fluff that I have. Regardless of how crappy the baby lictors were, they're still simply not part of the normal thing. Absolutely no Tyranid organisms are, other than genestealers. Lictors are used to scout a planet; not necessary if a genestealer is already making a cult, so it doesn't happen. Once the planet is doomed, then a full on invasion begins. Thus at that point you'd want to come up with a special apocalypse scenario, with the cult army on one side, the victims on the other, and anything from the Tyranid codex arriving by mycetic spores. But they don't appear until the planet is doomed and nobody will fight anymore. Hmm, a good evacuation scenario comes to mind...

I didn't say heavy stubbers on bikes were power gamey, I said they were entirely unfeasible by fluff, which is what you want this based on. Like I said, give them a side car, extra wound, and +15 points and it's perfectly acceptable. If other tweaks make it flow better, use that. Remember that these are just humans on harleys. Marines ride ten foot long bikes with tires that are about three feet wide. That's a far cry from the piddily regular sized bikes by comparison.

I would insist on keeping the armor values at 9. They are civvy vehicles. They have no armor and should thusly be that vulnerable in a battle. How long would a pickup last against serious firepower? Ask some soldiers overseas and they'd tell you half a second. But at least yours has a nice gun on it.

I have an idea for the hybrid drivers though. Says here "many of these hybrids are able to exercise the human intelligence stolen from their genestock, learning quickly how to utilize conventional weaponry and infiltrating military and political institutions to further the aims of the sect." I have no idea how BOLS came to the conclusion that they suck but are tough, so I'd just keep them all at BS 3 and no other benefits. That way they'd hit like they're trained to do and aren't clunky with whatever. Also, I think lascannons would be just fine. They infiltrated the military, stole good weapons, and figured out how to work it (at the expense of four of them, lol). A revolt is a revolt. Mobs will bust down armories and take weapons if they don't have them.

You'll have to learn to deal with tanks in a different manner than shooting, because obviously the cult won't do that terribly well. If you go this route it's actually quite easy to destroy tanks. Send the genestealers after tanks, and you'll find they get munched right quick since you always hit on rear armor.

[Leudast1215]

By the way in the .pdf the inquisitor special characters for my opponent to opt to use are on page 20 .

Heavy stubbers on bikes with a cart is fine, but given it's a heavy stubber and not a heavy bolter on a human biker i'd make the upgrade +10 points instead of +15. Sorry if i misinterpreted what you said earlier and/or i mis-typed what i was thinking because we actually were considering similar ideas, hehe silly me. Still academic due to lacking bikers...

The other nifty junior lictors/optional least cheesey nid options stay cause they add a lot of variety. The tankette, if front armor 9, cause right now it's 11/9/9, would have to cost less than a sentinel to compensate and have the civilian vehicle profile. in which case it literally just becomes a truck (which currently cannot take auto canons)... the whole roll a D6 and on a 1 it cant move is based off the idea the cult members scrapped together some junkyard tech and their best anti-tank gun (auto canon) and used a truck engine, thus it's always in danger of over-heating from the extra 2 front armor. It's priced fairly as per the first BETA test. It costs more than a Tau piranha which has better armor, speed and a better anti-tank gun btw. I just don't have anything that could pass for a truck, ,so the tankette is in use until that is remedied with any unlikely/unforseen lump of cash heading my way to buy ork trukks.

I do agree through; BOLS idea of a "Hybrid Driver", while a neat concept and one I really want to make unique to this fan-made codex, is just plain odd/weird in their version, and a few variations/idea spamming will be needed to make it nifty.

I dunno, lascanons with this army just feel wrong. I can see rocket launchers because it's a tube with a rocket ^_^ that fits the image of a under-armed guerrilla force, but a lascanon just looks outa place and is too static/IG/I feel like a hybrid might burn itself using it. I'm shooting myself in the foot by taking out lascanons in infantry squads to fit the theme of cult/guerrilla army during the beginning of the apocalypse I.E. Hive Fleet invasion.

But now that you bring it up... There's actually a (rather useless) apocalypse formation with this codex too on the last page. An apocalypse game sometime based on the idea of a Genestealer Cult uprising with Tyranids invading simultaneously via deepstrike with lictors/genestealers deploying on the ground sounds kinda nifty. come up with some special rules for the cult/scenario, like the cult is trying to grab a bunch of objectives (civilians) and drag them into the Tyranid vats where they can be barbecued and it's the job of the other team to stop them or something, all the while Tyranid units are being deepstruck throughout the game via metiotic spores with spore mine support everywhere to sew havoc. Probably say treat the metiotic spores for transporting like a drop pod that disperses spore mines as per the rules for metiotic spores and then is removed from play.

So in this way we could field my in-progress genestealer cult as the center-piece badguy, and our tyranid players (dubs, the other guy whose name i forgot and myself) could fight off the other armies.

for what it's worth i'll also constantly be tweaking that 'errata' list up above as needed for public use/my own.

[Andrew]

Yea, mine doesn't have a page 20...regardless, out of defending the fluff, no inquisitor.

[Leudast1215]

yar'gh it's not for me it's for my opponent for scenario play (also odd you didn't have a page 20)

[Leudast1215]

I'm printing this up on campus; I'm out of ink...

Thomas Dady
Genestealer Cult
1501

Genestealer Cult

Unit Type
Unit
Upgrades
Cost
HQ
Patriarch
Reinforced Chitin (10).
100
HQ



TROOPS
Brood Brothers (20)
Sything Talon (3), Rending Claws (5), Satchel Charge (15), 2 x Flamers (10), Laspistol & CCW.
158
TROOPS
Brood Brothers (20)
Sything Talon (3), Rending Claws (5), Satchel Charge (15), 2 x Flamers (10), Laspistol & CCW.
158
TROOPS
Brood Initiates (20)
2 x CCW, Sything Talon (3), Rending Claws (5), Flamer (5).
83
TROOPS
Brood Initiates (20)
2 x CCW, Sything Talon (3), Rending Claws (5), Flamer (5).
83
HQ
Genestealers (6)
Feeder Tendrils, Scuttle, Extended Carapace.

144

HQ
Magus
Plasma Pistol (10)
60

Transports
Coven Limousine

35

Fast Attack
Seeding Lictors (3)
Pack Tactics (30)
180

Fast Attack
Brood Trucker (1)
Cult Mortar, Hybrid Driver (5)
35

HQ
Priests (2)

70

Heavy Support
Leman Russ
Hybrid Crew
155

Heavy Support
Tankette (2)
2 x Autocanon
130

Heavy Support
Hybrid Monstrosity

110



Genestealer Squads are exactly the same as in the Tyranid Codex, but now Elite.

Units that have Infiltrate/Scout do NOT lose the ability when deployed in transports because 5th Edition made it clear that transports can outflank with the unit inside it, but not infiltrate traditionally as per the 12”/18” rules.

Brood Brothers can also choose to be equipped with Lasguns or laspistols/CCW or shotguns.

The Truck (either variant) is open-topped. Hybrid Driver is +5 points.

Sentinels are 25 points base cost (it was gay over-priced as it was).

The Devoted special rule applies to any and every unit a Primarch or Magus joins (this includes the retinue).

Cult Priest: 35 points. Same stats as Brood Brother, but leadership 9 and 2 base attacks. Equipped with a Staff of Enlightenment (two-handed, +2 Strength). Gives the unit the Stubborn special rule. Unit must always move towards the nearest enemy infantry unit (not tanks), but running is optional and must always assault the nearest enemy infantry unit if able to do so. Independent Character. 0-3 Priests may only be included only if a Magus is included in the Army and Priests function independently on the table top, but otherwise do not take up a force organization chart and are not scoring. If Deployed or having moved into a Brood Initiate unit, and said unit fails a morale/leadership check, the Priest is removed with the squad.

Tankette: Armor: 11/9/9 with BS3. Open Topped. Equipped with Cult Mortar and Heavy Stubber. If the Tankette moves, on a D6 roll of 1 it cannot move for that turn because it's a scrapped together piece of ancient tech that primitive truck engines are always in danger of melting. Costs 55 points. May be deployed in squadrons of up to 3 vehicles. All Tankettes may Upgrade the Cult Mortar for an Auto Cannon for +10 points. The Tankette is not a Civilian Vehicle. It's not a Tank. If a Tankette roles a 1 in Dawn of War, the vehicle is placed with the rear of the model touching the table edge. It's a Fast Attack Choice.

Brood Initiates may not be armed with Frag Grenades, but Brood Comrades and Brothers can.

An Acolyte with 2 sything talons is granted +1 attack. A Brood Comrade Acolyte would have 3 attacks base.

HQ Choices may choose to be deployed in/with either a Limousine or Truck. Trucks have BS3.

Satchel Charges are Strength 8, AP 2 as found in the Imperial Guard Codex.

Brood Comrades can have Shotguns, Lasguns or pistols and close combat weapons.

Brother Chavil allows Penitent Engines and Storm Troopers to be inducted (Sisters Repentia originally? wtf?).

Inquisitor Seygale is now 180 points (Space Marine Special Characters got nothing on her ability).

Captain Kundera is now 180 points.

I'm leaving the Chimera at its original cost because it's the only survivable transport in this army, or one that can field something other than a Heavy Stubber. Except now it has side Armor 11 FTW!.

A Patriarch cannot infiltrate therefore it cannot out-flank or infiltrate with a vehicle or retinue. It's retinue is size 1-6, and the patriarch is 2 seats in a transport.

Seeding Lictors are now 50 points each and normally deploy and roll separately. They can be given a 4+ armor save for +10 each points. However, for +10 points per Lictor, they may be allowed to enter play as a squad both from reserve and operate as a squad rolling 1 D6 for reserves, but may not have a 4+ armor save, relying instead on pack tactics.

A Magus allows any units falling back within 12" to regroup if under half strength and if an enemy unit is within 6". He comes with a 5+ armor save.

Bikers may be upgraded with a Heavy Stubber for +10 points.

[Leudast1215]

Theory Machine:

I've been reading here members.fortunecity.com/pangolinsaloon/fl/genestealers.htm That Genestealer cults can turn to the worship of Chaos if things aren't going too well. I'm contemplating the idea of allowing a Magus to roll a psychic test and if successful he may summon a Greater Daemon (from the Chaos Space Marines or Daemons codex TBD) that replaces/consumes the Magus. If this option is taken, Daemons may be included in the form of 0-1 for Troops, Elites and Fast Attack. This means that any Cult Priests on the field lose the Stubborn special rule because they're disheartened at their leader succumbing to Chaos. The Magus's special rules for regrouping, leadership, psychic powers, etc... also all die because the Magus himself was sacrificed. the Daemons can deploy only the turn after the Greater Daemon is summoned and only then by Deep Strike.

I'm really trying to create a very unique and core list of units/rules that'll allow anyone anywhere, but hopefully in our club, to design a Cult that can be built around infantry hordes, pseudo lightly armored Imperial Guard, 1/2 generation genestealer shock troops with no tanks/heavy weapons, a Ministorium style army that's been hiding for generations waiting to mutate close enough to humanity to strike back with advanced weaponry, or a cult that's flirting with the dark gods to achieve its goals.

The ultimate goal is to provide the versatility in making/crafting something unique expanding on an original GW idea that they themselves discarded because... they're GW i guess. A lot of Army lists lack this flexibility and feel if I'm making a fake army, I might as well make it more appealing to any and all comers.

Also thinking that the Daemon Codex should be used for the few Daemon options; Chaos Space Marine generic Daemons defeat the purpose of adding flavor... Obviously things like Heralds don't count, probably a Patron god and a few squads. Bit tricky though to go that route; those Daemons are expensive.

Also with this kinda variety I'll have to come up with a few rules that regulate it; for example, a Leman Russ and a Greater Daemon should not be allowed in the same army build or something off the top of my head? probably things dealing with rules within the army list. getting your Magus screwed by dying hurts pretty hard as it is (he's pretty important here) but something with the priests or a stubborn rule getting negated would be nice. maybe adding the 'hyper predator' rule so all daemon's misses in melee hit the cult members would be nice and flavorful hehe.

[Andrew]

Well, because there are a great many things in that ancient article that are wrong now, I wouldn't use it as a source of inspiration. And I still can't agree with heavy stubbers on bikes . Space Marines have space-age technology; Imperial Guard are fairly restricted to mostly 1910's-1940's technology. Change the option to: One in every three bikes may add a sidecar (+1W) with a heavy stubber for +12 pts (or so). That makes much more sense.

[Leudast1215]

ssshhh the bike issue is over and done with even the original genestealer codex (which i came across....) has options for flamers, stubbers, krak grenade launchers, etc... on bikes. Also if IG are 1910-1940 tech then you should know that german motorized divisions had reconnaissance battalions outfitted with motorcycles that carried mg34 machine guns initially (a heavy stubber), so there .

What do you think about the daemonic cult idea? i'm brainstorming leadership/stubborn penalties for the army as a whole if a daemon is summoned to make it more cool and to offer a real weighted decision between daemon support or the risk of screwing your entire army by using said support. Maybe eliminate the Patriarch as a HQ unit to show how the cult has fallen to Chaos in his absence would be a good idea perhaps.

[Andrew]

Daemons make absolutely zero sense whatsoever. Tyranids smother and quiet the warp, making it impassable and impossible to send messages through. I believe there is no possible way daemons could ever be involved with Tyranids. Ever.

But, with a grand enough slaughter, Khorne might turn his mighty gaze towards the field...and be angry that none of his minions can enter.