Custom 5th Edition Tyranid Errata (muwahaha)

[Leudast1215]

Custom 5th Edition Tyranid Errata

1.The Lictor is 50 points and is no longer 0-1. One unit may be upgraded to a Death Leaper unit for +20 points each. The Death Leaper has Poisoned Attacks and allows one unit in reserve per turn per Death Leaper to come in on a +1 to the D6 result rolled for reserve rolls. This is cumulative with the re-roll for the standard Lictor's effect; so a reserve roll can be rolled with +1, then re-rolled with a +1 to that too. The effects of any other Lictor squad(s) operate normally on reserve rolls. Lictors may enter play only by Deep Strike into Area Terrain or any other piece of terrain that offers a Cover Save that can fit the Lictor's base. A squad must fit the entire squad into said terrain to be considered legal.

2.A Gaunt is 5 points base.

3.A Hormagaunt is 7 points base.

4.The Hive Tyrant's Winged option is +30 points. Toxin Sacs are +10 points. A Venom Canon is +20/30 points. Twin-Linked Deathspitter is +10/15 points. Twin-Linked Devourer is +20/25 points. A twin-linked Vencm Canon is +30/40 points and a twin-linked Barbed Strangler is +22/30 points. Twin-linked for a Barbed Strangler or Venom Canon means it was taken twice.

5.Gargoyles are 10 points each and may be taken as Troops or Fast Attack.

6.A Genestealer is 14 points base. Toxin Sacs is +2 points. Sything Talons are +3 points. Feeding Tendrils are +3 points. Extended Carapace is +3 points base. Scuttlers are +4 points.

7.The Broodlord has the Fleet special rule for a +20 point upgrade.

8.Symbiote Rippers add +1 wound incurred by a unit when it takes No Retreat! Wounds after combat resolution. This is 1 wound per Symbiote Ripper.

9.Warriors: +I is 2 points. +WS is +1 point. Flesh Hooks are +2 points. Leaping is 7 points. Winged is +12 points. A Venom Canon is +10/15 points. Sything Talons is +3 points. Rending Claws is +5 points. Devourer is +7/10 points. Deathspitter is +7/9 points. Symbiote Rippers are +3 points.

10.A Ravener is 25 points base. Sything Talons and Rending Claws are +8 points. Two Sets of Sything Talons are +5 points. Flesh Hooks may be purchased for +2 points. Ravener(s) may Assault the turn they Deep Strike.

11.Biovores are 25 points base and are no longer 0-1.

12.A Carnifex's Venom Canon is +20/25. A Twin-Linked Devourer is +20 points. Crushing Claws do not negate a Carnifex's 2 base attacks; it's D6 + 2 base attacks (+ charge). The Thornback biomorph (redundant currently) forces a unit to suffer No Retreat! Wounds even if the unit in question is not Fearless or Stubborn and doubles the # of No Retreat! wounds taken by a Fearless unit. A Symbiote Ripper adds +1 to either of these results; multiple Symbiote Rippers in a melee combat may be combined cumulatively. A twin-linked Venon Canon is +30/40 points and a twin-linked Barbed Strangler is +30/40 points. Twin-linked for a Barbed Strangler or Venom Canon means it was taken twice.

13.Ripper Swarms are +8 points each. +I and +WS are +1 point each. Leaping is +2 points. Toxin Sacs are +2 points. Winged is +5 points.

14. Synapse renders all Tyranid units, models and Synapse creature(s) immunity to Instant Death as well as automatically passing all leadership and morale tests.

15. Zoanthropes are no longer 0-1 and taking the same psychic power more than 3 times adds +5 points to the cost of any and all of said psychic powers (the original 3 being priced normally) being purchased. This does not apply to Synapse. So if 4 Zoanthropes had Catalyst, only +5 points would be added to one Zoanthrope for going over the limit; not +20 points.

Once again, feed back is encouraged. However, this is far more WORK IN PROGRESS than my initial Tau posting was.

Lictors needed a straight points drop. They're ridiculously fragile and easy to kill and can die coming into play.

Gaunts all around were over-priced since Orks came out.

Genestealers were slightly over-priced before, and I feel are about right now. I actually raised the price of out-flanking and Preferred Enemy given the changes in 5th.

Warriors took an all around slight points drop in upgrades because they were too expensive for what they did originally.

Biovores, given the KP issue, took a major points drop to compensate and encourage their use.

The Hive Tyrant took a few minor point drops because Winged was just over-priced.

Devourers as a rule took a point hike everywhere in the codex because they were very under-priced on Carnifex's, Warriors and Tyrants thus resulting in annoying lists of spammed Devourer Monstrous Creatures. This now means a Carnifex with 2 x twin-linked Devourers is not an Elite choice to encourage the fluffy Screamer-Killer build.

Venom Canons took a price drop everywhere because of the 'glancing only' rule and the changes 5th had on this weapon's effectiveness for it's designed target; tanks.

Zoanthropes were fine.

Raveners took a significant point drop because they were just too pricey for what they could do.

Rippers took a minor points drop to encourage use cause they got pricey fast for being... crappy swarms.

The changes to Symbiote Rippers and Thornback was to make them actually mean something again because both were rendered redundant/irrelevant with 5th. This makes Tyranids more scary in melee as they should be and it encourages a melee build of a Carnifex instead of the shooty ones.

I'm considering making a rule that would allow a Deep Striking Ravener(s) or Lictor to assault any unit they land on immediately that turn instead of rolling in the Deep Strike mishap table. For Lictors, this is almost a necessity and is very fluffy because this is the only way a unit can enter play. For Raveners, it would mean you WANT to hit an enemy unit to have a first turn assault; otherwise you're stuck in the open with a 5+ armor save.

[Andrew]

Another wishlist. You've left out the why for the changes and reasoning behind them. Do elaborate, pleases.

[Leudast1215]

Holy crap that was fast I was modding it as you typed lmao.

[Leudast1215]

Tweaked a few of the point values and fixed a couple grammar issues to make the rules consistent and non-ambiguous.

[Andrew]

8.Symbiote Rippers add +1 wound incurred by a unit when it takes No Retreat! Wounds after combat resolution. This is 1 wound per Symbiote Ripper.

Synapse also renders said units and Synapse creature(s) immunity to Instant Death plain and simple

Honestly, these are the only ones I like. The rest are WAAAAAA I DONT LIKE PAYING ALL THOSE POINTS, WAAAAAAAAA! It'd make you more powerful for less points, so no. Synapse worked the same in 4th edition as 5th edition, and it was made for 4th, so suck it up with No Retreat.

[Leudast1215]

It would help if you didn't do the 'waaa' stuff because I value your input and saying dropping points so Tyranids can actually play a swarm build competitively is complaining? Points dropped in Orks to make them better and cheaper than Tyranids in every way and even the Space Marine got cheaper because the stuff he comes with costs less than what you had to pay to get them in 4th. Several of the options in the Tyranid codex were too expensive in 4th edition for what they could do like the Lictor and Hormagaunt. If and when a new Tyranid codex comes out, probably in 3-4 years, there will be a massive points drop across the board from GW to get people to buy more models by returning Tyranids to the swarm army. They won't encourage Monstrous Creature armies this time because there's less money to be made there and frankly I don't think they thought the phenomena of Monstrous Creatures army would happen because they expected people to play, well, fair.

Furthermore, in this errata a hybrid build of Tyranids is encouraged which is both fluffy and fun to play with and against. That's also been the primary drive behind editing these two codices that I'm intimately familiar with because they only encourage one build out of several possible. In this errata, those stupid 2 x twin-linked elite Devourer Fex's wont be so common and there will actually be little bugs to shoot at in a competitive list. It also goes back towards giving Tyranids something unique in the form of Synapse which no other army has; unlike before when GW thought it smart to give everything Rending.

I also do find it interesting you didn't comment on the rise in price of Devourers on Tyrants/Carnifex's... which was, as a Tyranid player, ironically one of my biggest beefs with the codex. It's so stupidly good there's no reason not to use it unless you purposefully hurt yourself by not choosing it (like me).

Btw you actually contradicted yourself; if Synapse worked the same as it did in 4th, then there wouldn't be any No Retreat! wounds in 5th edition for Tyranids in Synapse which there are.

Also, if you think the Thornback biomorph (currently has no meaning and is redundant by 5th) is not fair having the rule I gave it, which fits perfectly with what it originally did by doubling the # of models the Carnifex counts for winning in combat (which was 10), what would you have it do instead? GW for some reason decided to nerf combat resolution in 5th so none of those original factors remain.

[RARE CHOICE GAMES]

Ok.

First off lets be nice people.

Second, this is a wishlist just like the Tau one. As I said before this is fine if you wanna give this list to an opponent and if he/she approves, try it out. It will never be official in any shape, way, or form because there is already an official list and it is the codex. Until GW decides to do an FAQ or something anything else will be by a player by player basis.

Doing this type of stuff is great for trying things once but as a standard format it won't work.

I know you say that the lists dont work because they arent competitive with the new 5th edition rules and that may be true but like everyone else who thinks that or has lists that are broken. You have to live with it. Its part of the GW cycle. I know you also say that by doing this it will create more diversified lists which would be true if it applied to a tournament setting but since you are playing friendly games what does it matter if your list is competitive...its a friendly game so what does it matter. Play with a list you like even if it loses every freaking time. I did. I play the lists i want. I played a freaking gun line tau with no vehicles at all and a bunch of fire warriors and a few suits. I didnt win often but when I did i knew it was from skill and not the luck of the dice, while doing this I also had a great time cause I was playing with friends. Tournaments are for competitive play not Club nights.

Ok I am done now. If you took the time to read this great grand awesome. If not oh well no hair off my balls.

[Leudast1215]

I'm a history major I love reading ^_^. Thanks for the feedback, but over-all I'm a little surprised by the amount of resistance (admittedly from really the only two people to post) towards proposed changes that as you said and I've said (repeatedly) are in no way official. I go to great lengths to try and explain why I would like these changes because a claim means nothing without a warrant. To me, when something is not even on the horizon for an update in a genre of gaming like miniature gaming, it strikes me as a bit odd to not tweak things to make more sense in the mean time. All of GW's rules are perfect for tournament play because there's no debate. When it comes to friendly play, any and all rules are fully at the discretion of the players involved. I personally wouldn't mind playing against our other Tau and Tyranid players with these custom errata's I've come up with because they're closer in line to what GW is moving towards: theme represented in rules to give armies more individual flavor and abilities. Chaos Space Marines, sadly, missed out on this due to the 1 codex debacle of "make things streamlined" before firing that guy and going on to make Orks and Space Marines ^_^.

[RARE CHOICE GAMES]

I am in no way against you playing these rules, Tom. I really want to stress that. If you can find people to play them thats awesome. I just cant really believe that many people will on a regular basis. With the posting of these lists I thought maybe you were trying to push for some house rules for club.

If that is not your goal than cool.

My reservations stem from people making their own rules cause they usually tend to favor the maker. Not saying that yours do necessarily but its just human nature to usually want to win.

If you can find the opponents by all means play your lists...I am just clarifying that there will be no Club "House" rules/lists etc without some substantial debate and voting from everyone.

[equinox]

The overall problem with this list is that it is a sweeping change to the existing book and not an attempt at clarifying confusing rules. Don't get me wrong, I liked reading it and actually agree with some of your ideas. My point is that you cannot expect much from such posts.

Wishlisting is fun though, so I would make the following suggestions for units I like and use. Keep in mind that these are my wishlist items and don't imply that they automatically would be a move towards creating balance.

Lictors: Remove the 0-1, make 1 units upgradable to Deathleapers. Deathleapers provide the bonus to the reserve roll and have poison attacks.
Lictors are not that powerful and fielding more than 3 of them will not break tyranids. I'd also like to see deathleaper added to the army.


Broodlord: Add a biomorph that allows them to purchase fleet.
I like the option of having fleet on the broadlord, but I don't believe that it should be automatic.

Raveners: Can assault the turn they deep strike.


Zoanthropes: Drop the 0-1, restrict the number of times a specific psychic power can be purchased.


Biovores: Drop the 0-1.
Biovores, like lictors, are not that powerful. Someone wanting to field many of them is far less scary than field three carnifexes.

[Andrew]

I'm sorry, I may have been a bit rough the first time around.

I argue against Fleet for the Broodlord for a good reason. No other medium sized Tyranids have it, which tells me they aren't meant to have it by fluff or anything else. It honestly just sounds like "I want it to keep up with my genestealers so I'll give it this because I want to." Once again, making something far more dangerous for no increase in points. While Equinox has the better idea, I still think not at all.

However, I agree with his Ravenor, Zoanthropes, Biovores, Lictor, and Death Leaper additions.

Tyranids are good at one thing more than any other army: Assault. However they get their advantage, they have it. That doesn't mean they should be arbitrarily lowered in points because you aren't doing well with them. Try a different tactic or game type, perhaps. Players took 4th and 10th at the Baltimore GT, and even 8th in 'Ard Boyz. That's not a bad showing at all, showing that the codex can be competitive. People are still trying to use 4th edition lists with 5th edition missions, which equals obvious fail. The TMC list isn't strong anymore, so it doesn't have to be nerfed or beefed. It's right where it belongs, and hordes of Tyranids is going well. Heck, I can easily fit 83+ little gribblies and 3 nasty carnifexes of doom in a 2000 pt list, and it will be competitive. Players like Bill will learn (if he evers plays with us lol) that the devourfex simply isn't as good as it used to be and dies all too quickly. Biovores don't shoot out KP by the way; that was my mistake and was corrected in the FAQ list. That should cover all the bullets on points changes.

On a side note, marines got boosted in points, not lowered. Some standard gear that's little used was added, and common fun gear was taken away or modified to be poo.

I'll argue against genestealers being allowed flesh hooks and feeding tendrils because for them, both are "mounted" in the tongue. It's kinda hard to have both in one mouth, or mixed in the unit. Some would have "grenades," some would have preferred enemy. It isn't good at all, especially when you have to check each model in a mashed up combat to find which has what.

So far as Synapse in 4th and 5th goes, it is the same. You should've been suffering No Retreat! wounds throughout 4th, but you never did because you might not have thought "automatically pass all Leadership-based tests" (C:Tyr) and "automatically pass them [Morale Checks, a form of Leadership test] for some reason" (4th and 5th BRB; the wording didn't change) were different, where in fact they're exactly the same. Perhaps you thought it unfair then as you do now, and I think in one tournament game with Dan he called you on it, and I remember you were kinda confused then miffed that it had to be done. Weird day. In any case, No Retreat! doesn't represent guys simply dying because they fear nothing, but instead being punished by getting wailed on more often because of it. No synapse can save that. Anyway, I definitely approve of simply changing the wording on Instant Death though, as it caused too much confusion for some people.

[Leudast1215]

Well the Instant Death rule was, at least me to me, clearly just being redundant and when you write rules it's very easy to have a slip of the tongue and be needlessly redundant; it's part of the original rule, after all, the Instant Death makes a model immune to automatically dying in a multi-wound model from strength double or more of the toughness. The original author of the Tyranid codex never thought being partially redundant would cause so much issues I bet ^_^.

As for the unit upgrade proposals, I like them and will eventually edit this list with them and see how they fly. I completely forgot about the Death Leaper.

As for Fleet on the Broodlord... definitely an upgrade option, or there is no competitive reason to take him other than fluff. He is a non-Fleet unit in a unit of Fleet models. This is contradictory and makes no gaming sense.

And yes, I never claimed to make this a house rule posting; this is purely for fun play with two consenting parties, just like my Genestealer cult which is proxied. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'll tweak the list further with ideas I've found online; It'll get more detailed as time goes on because there's a lot more opportunities to explore with Tyranids than say Tau.

I have no recollection of the game where I had to take those type of wounds in 4th edition, but I'll take your word for it Andrew. If I got miffed, it's because the exact wording of Synapse should've left me safe cause they weren't fearless but oh well.

Hell, why not just make Synapse Fearless and end any and all debates forever? The current wording means the exact same thing as Fearless anyway...

[Leudast1215]

Ok made a lot of tweaks and any more recommendations would be appreciated because I'm not trying to be a power gamer or anything to address an point brought up earlier; This isn't to make my specific codex better for the sake of being better, but to match the trend of new codices and tweak some glaring balance issues that were around even in 4th like devourer Monstrous Creature armies or armies with nothing but Genestealers and Carnifexs (guilty hehe).

If anyone can find the rules for Old One Eye, I see no reason why he couldn't return in this errata.

Theory Machine:

Since the change to rending and the curious hatred a lot of 40k players still hold towards Genestealers (Rending), why not just return them to their 2nd edition roots?

Give Genestealers Power Weapons and take away Rending and make them 16 points base (again). 4+ armor save is +4 points, Flesh Hooks are +1 point, Scuttler is +4 points, Toxin sacs are +4 points and Feeding Tendrils are +2 points? This way the tank killing is left solely up to the big monsters and the Genestealer can do what it was designed to do; be a TROOP killer again.

Or combine the two into the Errata and have the Power Weapon version take up an Elite slot in the FOC?

[dragonbait]

16 point WS6/I6 power weapons walking around?....and giving them the ability to outflank if they want?....are you insane? To me that doesn't look broken at all....

I have the rules for Old One Eye from the previous codex. He's really nothing special. Basically a regular 'fex with crushing claws, scything talons, WS4, S10, and a modified albeit much better regeneration ability. He automatically gains one wound back at the end of each 'nid turn, and if he dies, you mark the spot and roll a dice at the end of the next tryanid turn. 4+ he stands up with one wound.

....and 16 point WS6/I6 power weapons? Really?

[Leudast1215]

It's called 2nd edition Genestealers and they cost just as much now in the official 4th edition as they did back then; so by all measures, they should be cheaper than they are currently due to GW's steady price drop on everything .

I was just throwing it out there as an idea; because the issue with Genestealers was never their killyness, but their killyness towards something like a Land Raider that was a bit over-board. Despite the nerf to rending for vehicle damage, they're still pretty scary now that they hit back armor (maybe even better except vs. Land Raiders). This way the tank busting is left to the tank busters like Carnifex (thus melee builds) and the Troop killing becomes their speciality again instead of having this odd rule that makes em' half and half.

Btw as long as you're saying "16 point WS6/I6 power weapon" it has a 5+ armor save and no gun... to get a 4+ armor save and out-flanking and preferred enemy as written in this errata and proposed options for said Genestealers, it would cost 26 points EACH... fielding an army of those guys would be for fun play only you'd have so few of them as natural shooting = half die and Heavy bolters and up = bye bye. They also cannot shoot back unlike every other dedicated close combat unit in 40K who all seem to have pistols...

Just looking at the point cost of a Chaos Space Marine makes me blink and think "wtf was GW thinking?!" until you realize the circumstances that said unit will be playing under, then it appears less of a no-brainer. Ok admittedly people tend to go for Cult Troops, but I think it's more for the models cause a pure army of Chaos Space Marines could slap a Horde Ork army to ruin... Especially with Marks of Khorne or Chaos Glory.

[Andrew]

Well, Tyrants, Warriors, Lictors, Rippers, Zoanthropes, Biovores, and Carnifexes all don't have fleet. Again, anything bigger than a genestealer/gaunts shouldn't have fleet because they are not fast creatures (except for the snake-like ravenors). Laws of inertia and all that, plus consistency in the codex. They are still perfectly viable when you surround them with genestealers and outflank or infiltrate. I'd want my SM characters to have fleet because they're trained that well and can move that fast, but it ain't gonna happen. Remember game balance is another issue when making up your own rules. Fluffily it makes little sense either. Broodlords sneak, infiltrate, camouflage, subterfuge, etc, to get real close to an enemy, then WHAMMO! They're dead. They wouldn't be on the main battlefield, in the middle of the swarm, and thus wouldn't need to be fleet of foot anyway, considering they're already teabagging dead enemy HQ.

As for the 16 pt power weapon, you also have to remember that they have better S and T compared to general races (3's), as well as high WS, I, and Ld. And Fleet. And can easily get first turn charges for a nice cost. Power weapons are far better than rending, so if the basic cost for both is the same, it's wrong. Power weapons should be higher. Sure they can't biff tanks, but what they are built to be going after in the first place is now going to die much faster.

I think people would hate/fear them, and thus target them, much much more if they had power weapons. They had that in 3rd edition and they were in fact 22 points base, not 16. This was before the codex came out, where rending as a whole was introduced (which replaced their power weapons) and they dropped to 16 points. The basic fact remains though that they have some nasty claws that...rend and tear things to death. Every other model in the army with the same style claws (which is to say all other models as the claws are modeled the same) would have to get power weapons too, and take rending out of the army altogether. Otherwise you get a "a claw is a claw is a blade," or "a multi-melta is a multi-melta is a plasma cannon" effect going on, where the same weapon is actually two different ones, acccording to the overall rules of the codex.