1500 pt. Imperial Guard List (New Codex)

[NonSequitur]

While the codex is not yet out, we do have a fairly good feel for it at the moment from rumors on the Internet, especially Warseer. So I decided to put a list together and test out what I would ideally want to do and Tom allowed me to play vs. him. Did not work out too well but it is sort of a work in progress around several key concepts and will likely change after the Codex is finally actually released.

IG Rumor Summary on Warseer: warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188818

Here is what I used against Tom
Command Squad w/ frag grenades and refractor field 50 pts.
Platoon Command w/ frag grenades and refractor field 30 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and frag grenades 55 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and frag grenades 55 pts.
Infantry Squad and frag grenades50 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Veteran Squad w/ x3 melta guns and frag grenades 100 pts.
Heavy Weapon Squad w/ x3 missile launchers
Hellhound 130 pts.
Spearhead Sentinels w/ x2 lascannons 140 pts.
Leman Russ Squadron w/ x2 basic Leman Russes w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 300 pts.
Leman Russ Vanquisher w/ smoke launchers and searchlight + Knight Commander Pask 205 pts.
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 165 pts.

Tom then used it against me dropping the hellhound and Pask and then down grading the sentinels to autocannons on the recon version. He then picked up multi-melta side sponsons on all of the Leman Russ variants and a 10 man rough rider squad. He was ahead 200~ points on turn 6 using this.

I think I might drop the hellhound and the plain guardsmen squad for a second platoon command squad and a Leman Russ Exterminator (strength 7 ap 4 48" heavy 4 and twin linked), but I am not sure, I would like to try my first build again several times to see how it works against other armies and on other boards, and more importantly, in real missions.

Please note that I do not want to spend more than $100 total getting the new Codex and making the army more competitive, so please no "bring 9 gazilion Valykeries and Vendettas and win" suggestions. Try to keep alternatives under ~$80 in price or something I already have. This includes a basilisk and a chimera that I do not use and about 30 Guardsmen or so plus the storm troopers. Thanks.

[Andrew]

You put sponsons on the Exterminator, right? If so, use it, if not, WTF WHY NOT. See, I've always seen the two basic tanks kinda redundant with the demolisher around.

When making your squadrons, do the obvious and make each have a purpose instead of being general purpose.

The only things I'd really suggest getting are plasma cannons for the sentinels (no overheat, no roll to hit - win for IG), as well as a second Vanquisher turret and an Executioner turret. Your army always seems to lack AT and low AP weapons...both would greatly enhance it over the poopy Russes you use. Not that they suck, but their best targets (marines) tend to be in cover or in transports, both against which the battle cannon sucks. You'd definitely make me scared to have a 96" chainfist equivalent...

[NonSequitur]

The two Russes would be used as an anti-infantry unit. Vanquisher would be used as a dedicated anti-tank support. Demolisher would cover a flanks advance. If I took the Exterminator, it would likely lack sponsons unless I was going to keep it still and find the points. It would either be assigned to the two other Russes or to the Demolisher, both units would likely be moving 2-3 turns out of the first 4, thus negating the benifit of lumbering behemoth in relation to sponsons.

Remember, the newest rumor about lumbering behemoth is that it only alows you to fire whatever the turret weapon is and then any weapons you otherwise would normally be able to.

A more likely revision that I would make is dropping the Hellhound and a squad of Guardsmen and picking up Creed, a chimera for the veterans and a second platoon command squad. Several people have suggested that I take Rough Riders, notably Tom and my friend Ricky. Excpecially with Creed all I would need to do was drop the secound platoon command squad and the missile launcher team and I would have a great one turn cc unit. This would drop my at capabilities but give my a one turn monsterus creature begone when combined with Creed's "For the Honor of Cadia" special order (Strength 6 initiative 6 and with power weapons but no benifit from having two cc weapons so only 2 attacks on the charge). I guess I will have to consider them when the new Codex is officially released and I can see the final rules.

So a tentative new list is:
Command Squad w/ frag grenades and Creed 140 pts.
Platoon Command w/ frag grenades and refractor field 30 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and frag grenades 55 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and frag grenades 55 pts.
Platoon Command w/ frag grenades and refractor field 30 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Heavy Weapon Squad w/ x3 missile launchers 90 pts.
Veteran Squad w/ x3 melta guns and frag grenades and w/ Chimera 155pts.
Spearhead Sentinels w/ x2 lascannons 140 pts.
Leman Russ Squadron w/ x2 basic Leman Russes w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 300 pts.
Leman Russ Vanquisher w/ lascannon, smoke launchers, and searchlight + Knight Commander Pask 220 pts.
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 165 pts.

1500 pts. exactly

The tricky thing will getting the Demolisher into the right position to kill any 2+ units. Switching to the Rough Riders is something I'll have to consider, maybe.

[Leudast1215]

Total = 1260

Command HQ Squad w/Creed w/Astropath w/Chimera w/Improved Comms/Command (cost?) =

total =
Platoon Command w/ outflank dude =
4 infantry squads w/ flamers
Platoon Chimeras =

total =
2 valkyries w/Heavy Bolters = 230
veteran squad w/ shotguns w/Demolotions =
Storm Trooper squad =

3 Recon Sentinels w/ Heavy Flamer =

Sly Marbo = ?

Tech priest w/ 4 Servitors = ?

I'm leaving 230 points or so for TBD random upgrades, Sly Marbo and the Tech Priest squad. Speaking of which, the point of this army is to make it all out flanking in that Creed will scout w/ his guys in the Chimera, the other dude will make his platoon out-flank, but that leaves the tech priest all by himself? Is there any possible way he could hop into a Chimera before the game begins at this point in time? Feel free to share your input on my potential Guard army list too.

I'm liking your newer version of your list better than the original. The problem is that I don't see how it's going to practically make it's way across the board reliably, nor does it strike me as a list that's going to be able to storm positions; much like the Tau. The list kinda feels like some seriously beefy tanks backed up by sheets of paper that will get picked off as they run due to their lack of ability to reach out and 'touch' things (like with a grenade launcher). The infantry, as written, seem designed to be more static unless you plan on using my idea and marching the flamers and HQs behind a wall of AV 14.

That's why my army will be filled to the brim with 9 heavy flamers (6 on Chimeras) and at least 4 flamers, plus melta/plasma in the hard hitting stuff like storm troopers and veterans (the latter will have demo charges and melta bombs muwahaha). It's designed to, if necessary, ram stuff outa the way in a wall of metal and flame.

Your list, as written, doesn't strike me as having a lot of synergy ultimately and it's partly why, despite my victory over my own army last time in our 2nd game friday, the whole thing felt kinda klunky to use. I mean admittedly I'm a bit light on anti-tank as I'm relying on my ability to melee tanks with my 2 special squads, but a lascanon on the valkyrie will help (vendettas if i cannot out-flank the tech priest). More importantly, my army feels like something that's going to smash smash smash and hold something like an objective. yours just feels more like 'send forth the (small) wave and hope 1 tank can kill all the enemy tanks w/ out dying because once the enemy figures out he can instant kill missile launchers or just blast your command squad there's no anti tank left.

Speaking of second game... I was actually not fielding a 1500 point Tau army, but somewhere around 1440 in both our games. i did the math with a real calculator afterwards.

[NonSequitur]

Without Sly or the Tech priest, you are looking at around 1430 points for your army.

70 points will get you two multi laser sentinels with 5 pts. to spare. The chimeras will be the greatest threat in this army, I would just worry about this list running into a army with more than 3 tanks with 13+ front armor and 12 side or with many thoughness 5+ models; Nurgle, nidzilla, eldar wraith army, etc...

Right now you have 4 one time use srength 8 ap 3 large blasts (that ignore cover), 8 multi lasers, 6 heavy bolters, 3 heavy flamers, and 4 flamers.

You could up-grade the valkyries to lascannons for an unknowen cost to increase your ranged tank killing power, other wise, it seams all of your hopes are riding on a squad of troops that need to survive the drop and the following turn to kill any thing. Melta guns on those vets would help you greatly. Same for the storm troopers, seams silly to drop such expensive modles into the enemy for only one turn of fire against infantry. That would add 50 points to your list, 20 points short, (two more improved comms).

That and you might want to give your hq command squad something like a medic or bodyguards to increase its longevity. If you want to add any thing else, you are looking at 1750 or 2000 pts.

[NonSequitur]

Reworked list after seeing the actual Codex at John's store.

Company Command Squad w/ a powerfist, meltagun, frag grenades and company standered 75 pts.
Company Command Squad w/ frag grenades, meltagun, and power weapon 60 pts.
Platoon Command Squad w/ frag grenades and power weapon 40 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and frag grenades 55 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and frag grenades 55 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Veteran Squad w/ x3 melta guns, meltabombs, democharge, and frag grenades and w/ Chimera w/ heavy bolter and multilaser 185pts.
Spearhead Sentinels w/ x2 lascannons 140 pts.
Leman Russ Squadron w/ x2 basic Leman Russes w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 300 pts.
Leman Russ Vanquisher w/ lascannon and storm bolter, smoke launchers, and searchlight + Knight Commander Pask 230 pts.
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 165 pts.

This should work out to be exactly 1500 pts. Not to bad, 75 men (20 at bs4) and 6 vehicals (4 which are tanks with 14 front (1 at bs4) 2 that are walkers with 12 front). 3 lascannons (one at bs4), 5 melta guns (all at bs4), 6 heavy bolters, 1 multilaser, 2 battle cannons, 1 demolisher cannon, 1 vanquisher cannon (at bs4), 1 demo charge (at bs4), 1 powerfist, 2 power weapons, and 2 flamers. 5 orders a turn. No less than leadership 8 (with sargents) all around. All in all, it seams like a good list to me.

Anyone else have any comments/concerns about it?

[Andrew]

Can't wait to play it on Friday? I'm not totally sure, but I think I want to use thusly:

Command Squad w/Creed, Kell, MoO, carapace armor 275 pts
Chimera 55 pts
Primaris Psyker 70 pts
Stormtrooper Squad w/2 plasma guns, plasma pistol, power sword 215 pts
Stormtrooper Squad w/2 meltaguns 85 pts
Veteran Squad w/plasma gun, lascannon, forward sentries 135 pts
Veteran Squad w/3 grenade launchers, missile launcher, forward sentries 130 pts
Veteran Squad w/2 flamers, missile launcher, forward sentries 125 pts
Leman Russ Vanquisher w/lascannon, heavy bolters, heavy stubber, + Pask 250 pts
Manticore Missile Launcher 160 pts

Let's see what I have here:
51 men (all at BS4)
3 Vehicles (one MBT)
13 hot-shot lasguns
3 plasma weapons
3 grenade launchers
2 meltaguns
2 lascannons
2 missile launchers
1 vanquisher cannon
1 crazy psychic power (2D6 S6 AP5 shots)
1 basilisk shot
(all at BS4)
1-3 S10 ordnance shots for four turns
6 heavy bolter shots
(all at BS3)
2 power weapons
1 power fist
1 force weapon
4 orders a turn
30 3+ cover saves, at least

[NonSequitur]

Sounds like fun, can't wait! I'll be interested to see how that psyker does, the Master of Booom! as well. I am also interested how well the storm troopers will do aganist an army that is not a 3+ save based force.

[Edit] Gosh darn it, via a miscommunication, I do have to go home Friday, but I will be back on Saturday afternoon, we can talk about this tomorrow.

[Andrew]

Or we can just play today at club...

[NonSequitur]

That would be fine with me, I should be there some where between 4:20 and 5:00.

[NonSequitur]

Well, after a few tests, the list seems good, I just need to learn how to better use Pask and the vets with their chimera. The two games I have gotten in agianst Andrew have been a win and a lose, and in both games, I either missused those two units or the dice failed me at the point I most needed them. Hopefully over the summer I'll get some practice with those pesky vets, firepower units inside a transport that actually use the transport is a new concept for me and my Guardsmen. Hopefully within another couple of games the vets and the dynamics of using orders to their fullest will sink in and I'll have a better overall game.

[Andrew]

So far I've seen that your veterans just don't go fast enough. If anything, I'd give the chimera to a command squad like I did. This keeps them alive and unshot longer. Upgrade the veterans to being transported in a valkyrie to go faster quicker. It'd be at the loss of, say, an ordnance tank or maybe a couple squads, but to be honest, your squads aren't really doing much right now except filling points. They were good against my IG, but killed...3 models against my marines? You'd really only need one platoon...one platoon with better weapons, heh.

Something more useful, I don't know. More veterans, maybe bust out the stormtroopers...

[NonSequitur]

Ok, round three. Minor adjustments, lose of two infantry squads and a command squad and gaining a second triple melta/demo charge squad with Chimera.

Company Command Squad w/ a powerfist, meltagun, and frag grenades 75 pts.
Platoon Command Squad w/ frag grenades and power weapon 40 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Infantry Squad w/ heavy bolter and frag grenades 60 pts.
Veteran Squad w/ x3 melta guns, meltabombs, demo charge, and frag grenades and w/ Chimera w/ heavy bolter and multilaser 185pts.
Veteran Squad w/ x3 melta guns, meltabombs, demo charge, and frag grenades and w/ Chimera w/ heavy bolter and multilaser 185pts.
Spearhead Sentinels w/ x2 lascannons 140 pts.
Leman Russ Squadron w/ x2 basic Leman Russes w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 300 pts.
Leman Russ Vanquisher w/ lascannon and storm bolter, smoke launchers, and searchlight + Knight Commander Pask 230 pts.
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ smoke launchers and searchlight 165 pts.

I might consider giving the Chimeras heavy flamers, and possibly switching another squad out for a third Chimera for the CHQ squad, but then I would need a third Chimera, I am getting a second from a friend over the summer, just needs a slight repaint to get it in order. I would rather have the vets storm the enemy then have the HQ squad sitting pretty if I only had two. I don't want to get a third unless it is absolutely clear that it is necessary in an average battle.

The new list would do a lot better on the move and have less punny units, but that is a play style I am not compleatly used to, oh well, I guess it is time to try new things with a new shiny Codex ;D.

[Andrew]

It is better than standing in your deployment zone, dying in droves...

[NonSequitur]

Awww, but dying in droves is what Guardsmen do best ;D. But on a more serious note, I think the list will work much better once I get the hang of it. Just need to go home and get the Chimera from a friend then repaint it and get another guy with a demo charge together. Should be done less than a week after I get home, after schools out so won't be able to use it at the club for a couple of months. I guess I'll have to settle for the local GW store 'shudders' . One Redshirt randomly shouts "KRAKEN" every once and a while when somebody does anything notable and most of the players have no idea with regards to the rules .

[Andrew]

lol...where can the nearest GW possibly be to you?

[NonSequitur]

Lake in the Hills, its on Randle Rd. It is new, less then six months old. Its only about 18 to 20 mins away depending on traffic. My friends at home are much closer to it, 5~8 mins away, and they are there most every Wensday and Sunday for 40k and Apocolypse battles respectivly. So likely I will be there too, at least when I can get a ride or untill I kill get tired of that Redshirt. But serriously, he's ok when he isn't trying to be heard by the people across the street, and Randles a pretty big street .

[Andrew]

Really, LITH. Didn't even know there was one there...but it's new as you say so that makes sense.

I'm not playing you for league tomorrow, but I definitely want to test daemons against new IG if you want.

[Leudast1215]

Where is the GW out by where you'll be at this summer Carl and (very) roughly how long of a drive would it be from Dekalb? 2/3 of my summer will suck so I'd rather drive and hang out some place than be stuck here.

[NonSequitur]

The games store is roughly an hour from here, 45mins home 15mins to get to the store, if you took a more direct route it might be faster. Here is where it is for the currious:
Games Workshop - River Pointe
203 S Randall Road
Algonquin, IL 60102, US
www.games-workshop.com/gws/storelocator/search.jsp
(it won't let me link staight to it but it will give you directions after you click some buttons and stuff)

I wouldn't mind taking a trip or two down to DeKalb over the summer, I would need something good to bring me back however, like a nice juciy Apocolypse battle that isn't organized by a bunch of redshirts running around like a flock of chickens with their heads cut off. Bad thoughts of baneblades are floating around in my head, maye if I buy a second super heavy it will make the GW purchasing fairies stop harrasing me ! Make the voices stop!

I posted on the Leman Russ page that the money went through on Paypal so I will order the Shadowswords tonight . Everyone is okay with Shadowswords right? The guy does also have sets of Baneblades. If no one says other wise, I'll make the purchase around nineish tonight. It should be in by no latter than Friday next week, I would think that there would actually be a good chance that it would arive in time for whoever picks me up from DeKalb to bring it on next Wensday but don't hold me to that. If not, we can work around how to get you guys the tanks on the forums.

**** ;D 100th post ;D****