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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 26, 2006 13:56:54 GMT -6
Yeah I don't think there should be any problems. I don't think you can hold any players liable for not being aware of a book that is not even published anymore by the parent company.
But this does raise an interesting question. Just how far back do these chapter approved things go back? Are they even current as they were published prior to 4th Edition? I mean, is there some kind of grand poo-bah listing of what rules are fair game and what are not?
I'd typically assume that a book no longer published does not constitute current rules.
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Post by Andrew on Sept 26, 2006 14:39:13 GMT -6
Basically, you're right. It was made with 3rd edition in mind. There wasn't a grandiose change from 3rd to 4th though, so they would all be still legit unless specifically stated otherwise.
I own the book, thus I can use it to others' despair, as per the "legality of models" thread, hehehe... However, since it hasn't been brought up in a faq, here's how this is going to go:
By all sense it shouldn't be possible and she should be limited to only four nobz, but since GW is still lost in their collective butt-hole and can't be bothered by this issue until next fall, the club will allow it. However, if someone finds a rules clarification pointing otherwise, then down to four it is. Sound fair?
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 26, 2006 14:48:23 GMT -6
Basically, you're right. It was made with 3rd edition in mind. There wasn't a grandiose change from 3rd to 4th though, so they would all be still legit unless specifically stated otherwise. I own the book, thus I can use it to others' despair, as per the "legality of models" thread, hehehe... However, since it hasn't been brought up in a faq, here's how this is going to go: By all sense it shouldn't be possible and she should be limited to only four nobz, but since GW is still lost in their collective butt-hole and can't be bothered by this issue until next fall, the club will allow it. However, if someone finds a rules clarification pointing otherwise, then down to four it is. Sound fair? In the sense that we're all friends so we're not going to rules lawyer each other's armies - yeah, that's fair. But in the grand sense of 40k ruledom, I call garbage. Just because you have access to a book that is not published anymore I don't think that grants you license to 'use it to other's despair'. I mean, if a rule book isn't published by the parent company any longer, I can't fathom how it's considered to be fair game. If this is how the game is run, then that would mean that every text, ever printed, is considered fair game unless the specific text is officially over written at a later date. Which, I imagine opens a lot of loop holes. Also, in terms of the Ork Body guard. She's actually limited to only 4 TOTAL orks in Mega Armor. That'd be her Warboss + 3 Mega Armored Nobs at 8 spaces, then 2 regular nobs. You have to do it in this fashion because you need a minimum of 5 body guard Nobz - which I think just lends credibility that this Chapter Approved stuff is bunk. |
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 26, 2006 14:57:12 GMT -6
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Post by Andrew on Sept 26, 2006 20:31:30 GMT -6
Ah! Well thank you good sir for clearing all this debate. As for your concern on things still being legal since then...
...they are. The Speed Freaks, Kroot Mercenary, Feral Orks, etc are all still usable lists. Obviously some parts of FAQ's and the like will be out of date with the new rules set, but otherwise things are very much still usable.
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 26, 2006 20:54:28 GMT -6
Ah! Well thank you good sir for clearing all this debate. As for your concern on things still being legal since then... ...they are. The Speed Freaks, Kroot Mercenary, Feral Orks, etc are all still usable lists. Obviously some parts of FAQ's and the like will be out of date with the new rules set, but otherwise things are very much still usable. My confusion just stems from the question of 'what is legal' and 'what is not' in terms of rules being reprinted. The Orks just make a good example of a codex that has not been updated since 1999 - has had 3 Chapter Approved printed since then and an entire edition as well. It's hard to figure out what precisely is useable. I think GW needs to double their writing staff and re-release new codexes with every new edition - all in one fell swoop. |
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Post by Andrew on Sept 26, 2006 21:08:22 GMT -6
I think GW needs to double their writing staff and re-release new codexes with every new edition - all in one fell swoop. Ha, we all think that. I thinks it's their business policy, because with every updated codex comes new models. To do them all at once would cost much more than they want to spend. Dark Eldar is even worse than the Orks. I can understand your confusion. Having codices and rules overlap editions is bad business, and can get confusing. However, to say every book printed before the 4th rulebook came out isn't legal would nerf DE, Orks, Chaos, DH, WH, IG, Eldar, Necrons, Eye of Terror, and Chapter Approved. There's no hard and fast cut line, because all of them are still legal, so long as they can conform to the 4th edition rules. For a good way to find what is "legal," check out rules at various tournaments. They usually have all the updates ready to rock. I'd especially ask around at Warmongers forums to see what is still usable. In tournament they're more stringent, but in friendly games pretty much anything goes, so long as more obscure things are agreed upon. Here in the club we let it all go except for tournaments, then we'll come upon a decision. |
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 26, 2006 21:12:11 GMT -6
You should check the warmonger board - I started a thread on this exact topic and got a few different replies.
Some people claimed that third edition Chapter Approved applies only to third edition codexes, others said that anything written for third edition doesn't fly in fourth - lot of division.
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Post by Andrew on Sept 26, 2006 21:25:04 GMT -6
Most interesting. I'm most in agreeance with Thrax on the issue. Yes, it's out of print, but it's still in effect. When something new supercedes that, then all is good. So long as we have it available, all should be good, right?
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 26, 2006 22:18:36 GMT -6
Did you see the part where I called (I'm megaman001) the GW Rules Hotline and recieved three different answers? Clearly, even GW isn't in agreement.
I don't care if people use special rules to *add* to their army - but I have a serious issue with people pulling out of publish texts, that cannot be obtained currently from the parent company, to take away from another person's army.
For example, you and that Dreadnought. You have some text that says its legal, cool. No problem. But I'd have a problem if you pulled an out of print text to tell me my army (built on available sources) isn't acceptable.
Does that make sense?
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Post by Andrew on Sept 26, 2006 22:34:43 GMT -6
Yes, it does make sense, now that I see it that way. I agree. Good that you figured out what I thought ended up being wrong; only for sealed vehicles, which Orks don't have to worry about.
I thought GW's responses as comical.
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 30, 2006 12:43:40 GMT -6
UPDATE OF WHAT I NEED TO FINISH:
2 x Twin linked Big Shootas (We really like the ones that appear on the Warbuggy and Wartrakk models in particular). These are the most important right now.
6 x Big Shootas to be fired by the crew.
1 x Zap Gun
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Post by bloodangellh on Sept 30, 2006 15:39:51 GMT -6
You can only bolt have 5 bolt on big shooters.
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 30, 2006 16:29:06 GMT -6
OK, fine, 5 - buzzkill.
If I mount the bolt on big shootas similar to a 'pintle mounted' weapon - can they have a 360 degree fire arc?
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Post by Andrew on Sept 30, 2006 16:41:53 GMT -6
I would say only if they are mounted where the orks are standing, otherwise they'd be outside firing across, know what I mean? Although, they _are_ orks...
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Post by bloodangellh on Sept 30, 2006 17:00:01 GMT -6
Just mount them on like swivle points/posts.
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Post by vicmohammad on Sept 30, 2006 17:02:52 GMT -6
This shit is all being custom made, so I'm going to need a grain of salt when it comes to rules. I just custom made the big shootas, they're a series of telescoping plastistruct tubes. They look pretty good I think though.
They're going to be mounted on swivel like posts where the boyz will be hanging out. I'm not sure if I am going to glue them in place though (probably not).
For some creative liscense the "twin linked big shootas" are actually going to be quad linked. I love the look of those Quad-Laser batteries in Star Wars and I'm going to emulate them. The rules will only be twin linked though.
EDIT: Quad Linked isn't going to happen, just too big I think.
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