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Post by Andrew on Apr 28, 2006 22:45:10 GMT -6
Oh it's not gray. Just gotta read.
Blast Marker
Place template centered on a model. It must cover as many models as possible. Any that are wholly covered are hit. Any that have any partial covering (1%-99% basically. As long as it's touching) are hit on a 4+. Casualties are removed from anywhere in the unit within range and line of site.
Flame Template
Position template so that the narrow end is touching the base of the shooter. The template must then cover as many enemy models as possible. Any that are touched by the template at automatically hit. Any casualties must be removed from within range of the firer (8 inches).
Ordnance Template
Center the template over a model. Roll for scatter. Now check range and los. If the center of the template is out of range or los, no big deal. Resolve it as normal. Any that are wholly covered are hit. Any that have any partial covering (1%-99% basically. As long as it's touching) are hit on a 4+. Casualties are removed from anywhere in the unit within range and line of site.
When it comes to determining when you get cover, you always get it from blast weapons, never from flame template weapons, and for ordnance and barrage, it literally depends on what side of the fence it falls, lol.
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Post by siriq on Apr 29, 2006 0:59:04 GMT -6
right thats perfectly clear, i dont know, whats troubles have you been having viq?
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Post by e1567 on Apr 29, 2006 9:01:11 GMT -6
Ya I wouldn't say they are gay they will just follow the rules to the letter as in you forget somthing they probably will not let you go back since it is a tourny setting. Also for their tournaments at the battle bunker you have to have a fully painted army. I forgot who this was but sometime next semester most of the club needs to go to the tourny and woop some ass.....it would be awesome if we swept the tourny ;D.
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Post by vicmohammad on Apr 29, 2006 17:14:17 GMT -6
Mostly what concerns me, is what is "touching". Is everything strictly on the base itself? If so, then my mortar teams on a double base would be worse off than if I had them both on singles, right? Also, how does that resolve from a tank? Is it the "center" of the vehicle (turret on a Leman russ, to the rear and left of a hellhound turret)?
Or, is it edge to edge? [By this I mean, any edge of one vehicle / model must be within Line of Sight to hit another edge of a model and the shot is considered legal]
I ask because sometimes I feel that my tanks are shot at because a tiny portion of their ass is sticking around a corner and I'm not sure how I feel about that. My question would be, would anything else be able to be hit in those scenarios if they had something hanging past the cover?
I'm only nitpicking because my army is so clearly mechanically based that when I lose a tank or an armament, it's a huge hit to my army as a whole and I'm trying to figure out how to hide them the best.
Lastly, with blast (ordinance) based template, by "touching" is that defined as any section of the base, or just part of the model? For example, a lot of infantry models hang over their bases considerably (particularly when only 1% has to be touched to be affected).
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Post by Andrew on Apr 29, 2006 18:29:34 GMT -6
Ahh, I know what you're asking. So we'll start with touching and infantry.
*Yes. Everything involving touching is only in regard to the base. Everything revolves around the base. It doesn't matter if the arms or legs or guns are hangin' off. The only thing that determines whether it's hit is it's base and how much of that is covered. As for your mortar teams, look at it this way. It is impossible for a blast template to touch more than base. While that means it causes two hits, you can still remove loaders, say one each from two bases, so that your mortars are still at full effectiveness. Just put a die on the base showing that it's taken a wound. If it's hit partially, then it's two partial hits you must roll for. I think it's better to have them as you do.
*For tanks and placing blast/ordnance markers, always place it on the center. Then follow the instructions on pg 65 of the rulebook for the rest.
*For infantry los, I play (and I think it should be played) that you must see a whole base of at least one model to be able to shoot at them. Of course, this could mean that only that one man or base will die. No big deal; it happens.
*For tank los, my personal tastes (and what should be done again) is that 1/4 of the tank must be visible to be shot at. Any self-respecting warrior won't shoot his expensive missile at the sliver of a tank if he knows whats best for him! Gun barrels don't count for los.
Nitpicking is good. It smooths out the ruffles and gets things right so there aren't arguements.
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Post by siriq on Apr 29, 2006 19:19:50 GMT -6
Nitpicking is good. It smooths out the ruffles and gets things right so there aren't arguements. damn straight |
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Post by RARE CHOICE GAMES on Apr 29, 2006 19:56:16 GMT -6
I personally feel that if you look from whatever is firing and can actually see the object (minus area terrain of course) than you can shoot at it...so even if it was only the ass of your tank I would say it was still fair game though you would benefit from being hull down I believe.
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Post by Andrew on Apr 29, 2006 20:14:15 GMT -6
Well definitely hull down. 1/4 of the vehicle must be in cover to benefit from it, lol. And yes. In this game, always, always, ALWAYS check los by crouching so you're lookin' right over the head of your shooter. If you can see, then dandy.
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Post by vicmohammad on Apr 29, 2006 22:10:22 GMT -6
That's cool and all as far as crouching to check line of sight - you had to do the same thing in Necromunda to determine if a person got 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 cover saves.
What I do think is kinda lame is that vehicles are so arbitarily open to fire. They're already on a higher level of terrain to be shot over stuff, plus they're the side of barns - I just think it's a little out there to be shot at due to a corner of a tank around a corner.
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Post by siriq on Apr 29, 2006 22:44:44 GMT -6
hey if the eldar see just gas tanks of a tank that didnt move and think they can hit it(which they always will) they are going to shoot at it definately if its a good target. maybe it might blow up the ammo and cause a chain reaction that takes out the main gun.
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Post by e1567 on Apr 30, 2006 15:39:30 GMT -6
Well this is what it says for line of sight in the rule book. If a target is hiding behind area terrain in order to see them you must check from your center of base to the enemy center of base. This is for infatry vs. infatry. I cannot remember off hand how it works for vehicles. I "think" it is your weapon to middle of enemy base. And center of infatry must see at least a quater of vehicle. But do not quote me on the vehicles it could be simply center to center but I do not remember i will be looking that up in the line of sight section when i get home.
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Post by Andrew on Apr 30, 2006 18:34:04 GMT -6
For infantry, the firer has to see the "body" of the target infantry.
For vehicles, los is traced from the gun mount to the target.
For firing at vehicles...they don't say. So let's have a house rule for it. 1/4 exposed sounds good to me.
I also found in my rulebook rummages that if los is traced over any cover, then the target gets the benefits. Say my squad is shooting at Vic's guardsmen. Neither is in cover. However, there is a fence/low wall/pile of rubble somewhere in between us. He gets his cover save. Basically it has to be entirely open/clear to not get such good life-ness.
Also, independent characters can't split their attacks anymore. In our game you would've had to go all squad or all chaplain.
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