Jan. 10 750 Skirmish Tourney

[Leudast1215]

Yeah I remember that, sure took you long enough

I forgot the name of the person you're referring to as well, but he was pretty good and had a competitive list. I really liked his conversions involving a lot of Ogre Kingdom parts and rope sledge hammers for power fists. Our game was a draw by the a pretty narrow margin just like the game Delso and I had. Though with the former, it became obvious that a Shas'el with a twin-linked flamer and AFP at point blank range (thank god for 'to hit' rolls) = 11 dead Orks ^_^. I think he might've been not entirely up to date on the rules though cause in retrospect he gave guys within range of the KFF on foot a 4+ cover save (should be 5+?) and didn't tell me which vehicle the Mek Boy was in even when I asked at first (thus opening up room to cheating; however unintentional). It was significant at the time given that Mek Boy appeared at my end of the table with his power fist without me even knowing where it came from .

The trophy win thing for me was kind of a gimmick, Rios just got unlucky and rolled a 3...

Over-all I was shocked I didn't lose this time. I owe that primarily I believe to the +40 points (ouch) to get rid of those game-breaking free Gun Drones on my 'Fish. On both of my ties, at least 1 Devilfish died. Had I had the Drones, they would've died too for that easy (and cheap) kill point and thus I'd have lost both of my draws.

I did not enjoy the kill point mentality (I'm sorry, but the only strategy here is forcing yourself to take larger units to limit your tactical flexibility), but over-all I really enjoyed this tournament in particular. I wouldn't advocate doing the 2x4' map again though because if you can't melee you die. I only drew in that match because, well, the Ork player move 6" the first round with his Trukks?! It's a 24" no mans land, just move 13" + 2" deployment + 6" charge + lucky 6 "waagh" = you first turn charge my tanks cause they had to deploy 2x2 due to the small map and to avoid dangerous terrain tests...

It wasn't a big deal initially, but John kind of reversed his stance on TLOS. In the first mission, he said it was TLOS. Then in my 3rd mission, he said it wasn't TLOS and the terrain in question (same as first mission) was a Ruin. This was a game-breaking change of policy in retrospect cause the HH died 2nd turn and I never shot at the Lootas due to that magic 4+ cover save even though there was no TLOS blockage; which wouldn't have been there in the first mission I played against Delso. It was game breaking in my case because the Lootas killed half of my tanks and I couldn't shoot back to inflict enough damage to force Ld checks with a 4+ cover save due to the dead HH (that thing died a lot) and lots of Orkies with power claws advancing under lots of auto-canon fire...

Random thought: Rios and I both rolled excruciatingly well in our 4th game, but rolling 3+ saves remarkably well doesn't stop an army's worth of S5 fire on a single unit... Even if it took 2 turns and my squishy FW having to all jump out in front of Space Marines to help out. Still remember like 7-9 wounds caused by my flame happy Shas'el (I love him. He blew up a Rhino with his fists before being Melta'd) all being saved .

[lixulan]

Jan 13, 2009 23:42:26 GMT -6 dragonbait said:

First place went to some guy named Tim that played tyranids. It was 3 11-man spinefist gaunts with w/out number, two hive tyrants with barbed strangler, and two carnifex with barbed strangler. He went 3-0-1 (Bloodbath Trophy)

I'm from the Quad cities, and it was 8 man squads dont want someone screaming foul on me. :-)

stupid immobilized, weapon destroyed stunned *4 rhino....

I had a great time and hopefully can make more of your tournaments up there.

[RARE CHOICE GAMES]

Dont worry man, no one is crying foul. Its a tournament so you can bring whatever you want. Congrats on winning the tourament and welcome to the boards. Hope to get to play you one day.

[dragonbait]

Yeah, my bad. Couldn't quite remember Tim. Glad to see you on the boards! The gaunts were without number after all =P ..No losses and you placed third.....yet you still complain Tom? Come on, really...do we have to make a "Tau wins day"? I give up 8 kill points, which I think might be tied for the most brought. The average kill points per army was probably around 6-7, so everyone had to deal with killy missions. Close combat armies obviously didn't have the edge in the matches, as a shooty 'nid list and your tau came in the top 3. Only close combat army that even went over .500 was me.

[Andrew]

Aww, I didn't call the winner...though for a Tyranid list, that's pretty much what I would expect for small points and deciding to win. Tom has those models (minus the second Tyrant), he could've done just fine.

didn't tell me which vehicle the Mek Boy was in even when I asked at first

Doesn't have to at a tournament, but it is a nice thing to do.

13" + 2" deployment + 6" charge + lucky 6 "waagh"

No Waagh! on first turn, so he knew what he was doing.

When shooting through area terrain (which ruins are), as long as the majority of the unit is between two vertical elements of said ruin (like building corners or walls) then they get a cover save, even if the unit is totally visible. So far as I can figure out, He didn't reverse anything; you just didn't know your rules!


Glad you had fun Tim. Hope to see you around more so's I can squish your Tyranids with my Ultramarines like they'll do 38,000 years from now! heh.

[Leudast1215]

Actually he did Andrew cause that same piece of Terrain didn't count as a Ruin in my first game and it did in the 3rd... . It's just something I remember in retrospect, but it's not a big deal nor something to make an issue of.

I didn't know that a Waagh couldn't be declared 1st turn, oops, but that 6" Trukk move definitely cost him the win. I recognize he didn't have to go out of his way to tell me, but when I ask what transport an Independent Character is in (when they're multiple Transports) and he doesn't put the model in the transport in question it leaves the potential for the player, however (un)intentional, to take advantage of this scenario. I mean I found myself in the past in a predicament where I had to roll a D6 to determine which transport actually had kept its Fire Warriors inside (one was out) cause both my opponent and I forgot so I went out of my way to ensure that didn't happen this time and it was just something else that stood out in my memory is all.

Ironically given the scenarios I probably would've gotten 2nd or been a runner for 1st had I brought a Nidzilla list with some flanking Stealers. I'm getting the impression, both locally and nationally, that Nidzilla and Orks are the two most competitive tournament armies out there right now. Most Mech lists have fallen a bit to the way side given vehicle vulnerability in CC, which is how almost all my tanks died. With Run, it's literally impossible for Tau and most armies to out-run infantry with vehicles?!

Over-all this was my first time ever playing a genuine Mech list: 2 Devilfish, 2 Hammerheads, 12 Fire Warriors and 1 Shas'el. It was definitely a different play style with VERY short movement phases and requiring a very subtle play it dangerous style of gambling given my guns are 12-18" of death with no CC ability. Maybe it just threw people off on how aggressively I play Tau cause they seem on paper like a gun-line army and I'm very aggressive ^_^.

I mean, I tank-shocked an Assault marine with a power fist with a HH with no guns and offered up my Ion Cannon regularly as a sacrificial pyre to lure people into Flamer range lol. B.E. Aggressive. ;D

Lessons learned:
1. Ion Canons are not AV12 tank busters. EVER.
2. Ion Canons eat Monstrous Creatures and everything else for lunch and brunch and tea.
3. Rail Guns still miss regularly at BS4 .
4. Disruption Pods only work for maybe 2 turns then the enemy is within 12".
5. 6 FW FoF is surprisingly effective.
6. 6 FW cannot kill a Mekboy in CC.
7. Anything that touches your tanks in CC = dead tank.
8. A AFP Twin-Linked Flamer Shas'el is shockingly effective.

[dragonbait]

Mech orks is what makes them competitive. From what I've seen, they're the new dark eldar, albeit with crappy BS and guns.

[lixulan]

Jan 14, 2009 11:33:25 GMT -6 Andrew said:

Glad you had fun Tim. Hope to see you around more so's I can squish your Tyranids with my Ultramarines like they'll do 38,000 years from now! heh.

Well given how the list did i'll probably be putting the rest of the army together and we can have a go if there is another tourney i can make.

Though i was surprised at the number of comments i heard about the without number gaunts. obviously it worked well enough even with kill point missions but it isnt a army to play for everyone thats for sure.

[Leudast1215]

I'm surprised they were that effective for you given in a KP mission that theoretically should've meant a relatively easy victory for your opponent. Playing Tyranids myself, I can vouch that they're not cheesy at all and that in all fairness you probably just played your list and your WoN Gaunts very well.

I know that Mech Orks are very competitive, however, they benefit from having their Trukks blown up because it's the safest transport in the game due to the Ramshackle table and the 19" turn 1 move that will put you within an easy turn 2 charge; turn 1 if your opponent moves forward... AKA, Orks benefit from their Trukks getting shot out from under them due to their unique rules and unit types. Comparing them to being the new DE is actually a fair comparison, but Orks are over-all better in CC and in shooting and in vehicles and in........ yeah.

[Andrew]

Different players rule pieces of terrain differently, so no ruling was changed by John. One person counted it as open, the second time it was (correctly) counted as a ruin.

If you think about it, it's still not really nidzilla. It's only 4, and 2 are tyrants. Granted, it's a small point game, but having infinite gaunts also brings that ratio of big bugs down. At least, that's thinking outside the box.

You still don't have to say which transport carries which, nor does one have to put a model on or near the vehicle; mystery is the fun! If you shoot it, out pops what was inside and the mystery. Or if a sudden claim to "cover save" happens, you darn well know there's a mek in it. When it's claimed for more than one vehicle, and they're more than 12" apart, then you know somethings up. Until then, just chill, that's the game!

Tim, did you get good comments or bad comments, or just comments in general? Nobody uses it, but in this environment, the more models you get in addition to your limit the stronger you are. Hence why I like my Vampire Counts in small point games. My army typically doubles its size by the end of the game, even when the opponent has plenty of dispel dice.

I don't see mechanized orks that much, but with new battlewagons I guess more will pop up. The big killer for such lists is that trukks limit it to 12 models per mob, which isn't as effective unless theyre burna boyz, tank bustas, or nobs. I've been having tough times against two large nob mobz in trucks hitting my lines, especially when joined with painboyz. Very tough to take down.

[Leudast1215]

Probably one of the hardest hitting units in the Ork codex currently is a full mod of Nob Bikers with a Warboss, Power Klaws all around and a Pain Boy. Times this by 2, and you have 2 HQ and 2 Troop choices. Assuming your opponent doesn't have Heavy Flamers (like me) you're, um, dead. This gets even worse if you equip every Nob with a different weapon combination, making them unusually survivable due to wound allocation rules.

I actually didn't hear what if any comments were made about Tim's list, but I thought it was a pretty nifty idea. Nobody expects WoN Gaunts in a KP dominated tournament setting. The fact that you didn't use Devourers warrants a thumbs up for me (I hate the buggers, models and rules both).

I'm also unaware what if any comments were made over my Mech Tau list, but it struck me as a very fair, non-cheesy list because every other army there could CC except me and the small maps really inhibits one's ability to maneuver and those 2 x 6 FW proved to be extraordinarily fragile. CC Tau and you win. Or if you're Delso, Melta my tanks over and over as I watch on glaring at my Ion Canon for sucking.

I kinda missed my Crisis Suits and in retrospect I probably would have placed 2nd, maaayyybbeee 1st had I brought along a few of those and dropped a Warfish. 2 Fire Storms cost less than said 'Fish, but have more fire power and that precious S7 I was lacking in so badly.

[Depayen]

Did I hear someone comment that Orcs are the new Dark Eldar? For some reason I feel I need to take a shower to get the filth off me. I am currrently shivering and wanting to flay someone at the same time for comparing the rightful ruler of the universe to the low life, other side of the tracks weeds of the universe.




(in jest guys)

[dragonbait]

Sorry Less, I had to say that, lol. Side not to you too, from our game with your chaos. IC's can only leave squads during the movement phase, so that clears up the problem we had when you deep struck your squad with the character and they tried to fleet away from her.

I don't have a codex with me offhand, but I'm pretty sure that a nob can be mounted on a warbike, then upgraded to a painboy. Makes heavy flamers a little less deadly.

[Leudast1215]

You're right I completely forgot about the FnP from the Painboy... ok so that's 1 set of 4+ saves instead of 2 lol.

[lixulan]

didnt really hear anything other than it was unusual neither good nor bad comments.

and yes making WoN gaunts work in a kill point mission is totally about generalship and know when to throw them away and get a new set and give up the kill point.

But being a long time eldar player watching my troops die in droves isnt unusual to me :-)

[Leudast1215]

It was relatively unusual to make a flame happy Shas'el ^_^ and it worked oh so well...

Otherwise it struck me as a pretty standard Mech list. CC em' and they crack open like egg shells. I still should've taken those 3 Crisis Suits though.

Oh, with regards to that earlier comment I made about no plasticard in Dekalb? Turns out John actually had em' at OBG, but no one really noticed until recently. I didn't even see it until I went hunting for it specifically... damn that was a lot of months wasted.

[dragonbait]

I figured you meant you didn't see it anywhere else in Dekalb. I knew John had it, just figured you had looked around at OBG and just didn't want what they had.

[Leudast1215]

Oh the trouble a few extra words in my old post could've saved... oh well, ty for the heads up though.

[ddaypunk06]

Hey guys, good tournament over all...two of my ties could have easily been wins in the end. One was vs. Tom where had I killed his last FW I would have been over the top in Kill Points by 1. The second was my game against Dubs. One genestealer left from three (I killed two of them) he runs them back to the objective and I couldn't get the last one. He passed leadership.

As fer Tim, I have no idea about your list, but it obviously worked as you won the tourney lol. Increase your list and come back for our club tournament this upcoming semester. Its looking like it will be either 1250 or 1500 points. We are working on the scenarios and what not currently.

Overall, I could have done some things better, but still a fun time.